CNBC: Dalio Raises Concerns About Social Unrest With Economic Crisis

Editor’s Note: I don’t emphasize this point because  it wouldn’t change anyone’s mind. But the comparison Dalio put on the table is one with which I am familiar.

Nobody in Germany ever imagined that an extremist nut like Hitler could ever rise to power, that inflation would be going at 2500% per month and the economy would fall apart. Germany was strong — or so everyone thought. Now as he points out the neo Nazi party is having a resurgence in Greece where the economy is approaching the same free-fall as Germany in the 1930’s.

Unless we fix the housing crisis and the resulting inequality of wealth and income in this country, we are flirting with social chaos. And the fringe people will be delighted because it will show that they were right all along about the apocalyptic vision they have for this country.

Like Clinton has been saying, we are far passed the point where ideology even matters. It is a matter of whether we want to keep our society intact and under the same government that we started with. Remember that all “empires” eventually fall and each time they felt, the vast majority of people thought it could never happen.

ray-dalio-on-the-rise-of-hitler-2012-9

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120 Responses

  1. @jg

    re: equitable subrogation

    this is what I have found so far:

    “Although Nevada courts have not considered whether an assignee assumes the assignor’s equitable subrogation rights, the general rule in most states is that where a valid assignment of a mortgage has been consummated with proper consideration, the assignee is vested with all the powers and rights of the assignor.”

    http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/86/86.F3d.890.95-15177.html

  2. hi, i will do the research in next day or so and post

  3. @las vegas – we had a discussion a while back about unrecorded interests. If I can find it, I’ll reference it. NV holds that interests in real property don’t have to be recorded. I hold okay, but that’s at the peril of the guy who doesn’t record. I also read the law to say that whlle an assgt needn’t be recorded, it must be recorded prior to enforcement: an unrecorded assgt is not binding on the homeowner or any other party without notice. A homeowner who executes a homestead is a party without notice of an unrecorded transfer of interest.
    Courts in certain circumstances will find in favor of equitable subrogation for Party B who did not record his assignment and a Party C has made a new loan, say. By date of recordation, Party C’s interest should be senior to the unrecorded interest of Party B. But, as I said, courts have found nonetheless that Party B may stand in th shoes of the party from whom it got its interest (the original lender), but there’s a caveat and it’s generally if it doesn’t find Party C impaired by the equit sub, if Party C is in no worse shape than it would have been had Party B recorded its interest.
    I don’t like this “equitable” consideration since it undermines recordation, but they didn’t ask me. Whether or not one would prevail on the homestead recordation might depend on NV’s rulings on
    equitable subrogation. I’d be interested in anything you might find on the issue. A party, esp an arm’s length one, who bought your house in good faith for value without notice of the assgt would probably be more likely to prevail if he then records a homestead, and as I’ve said, I’d sure like to see such a contest.

  4. @jg

    thank you, will check and then respond

  5. @las vegas – I’m familiar with some of those cases. Some of them have to do with judgment liens, which are involuntary liens and therefore aren’t really on point (but, yes, a homestead exemption recorded prior to execution, think it is, of a judgment lien will defeat the lien). At least another one has to do with one spouse unilaterally trying to encumber homesteaded property. NV law calls any act taken in violation of NV’s homestead laws void, not merely voidable, so if you went out and got a loan on your prop and it was homesteaded and your spouse didn’t sign, the loan is void. But I know of no case which addresses an assignment of a voluntary encumberance after recordation of the homestead exemption, unless you’re saying one of those does and I missed it. NV doesn’t require recordation per se, but it’s made clear in 111.315 that enforcement requires recordation. I just believe this h/s issue would be a case of first impresssion, and I’d look at FRBP 522, think it is, for why, under what principles, some debtors and bk trustees may avoid unrecorded interests. I know the status they are given, but I don’t know why and the why is the querry.

  6. @john gault

    and this from the 2012 legislature:

    “HOMESTEAD LAW
    The Nevada Constitution, which was adopted in 1864, provided for the exemption of homesteads from forced sale. The current version of this law is found in Chapter 115 (“Homesteads”) of NRS. To be eligible for the homestead exemption, State law requires a person to declare a homestead and to record that declaration with the county recorder. During the 2009 Session, State lawmakers enacted a measure that required the Real Estate Division to create a standardized form for the Declaration of Homestead. This form is available, free of charge, by the Division and the recorder in each of Nevada’s counties.

    The protection afforded by the homestead exemption does not apply to a mortgage used to purchase or improve the property, legal taxes imposed on the property, or prior liens. If a person accumulates
    other debts, defaults on a loan, or if a judgment is entered against the person in a suit, the exemption protects the homeowner. The exemption covers up to $550,000 equity in the property. Furthermore,
    Federal Bankruptcy Law acknowledges that a state law providing for a homestead exemption, such as Nevada’s, will be honored in any proceeding.”

    http://leg.state.nv.us/Division/Research/Publications/PandPReport/04-H.pdf

  7. @jg

    “The courts have also been quite liberal on issues concerning the timing of the filing of a homestead declaration. In Myers v. Matley, 318 U.S. 622 (1943), the United States Supreme Court had to apply Nevada’s homestead laws in the context of bankruptcy. It held that the settled law of Nevada entitles a property owner to his homestead exemption if the declaration and recording occurs at any time before actual sale under execution. Other cases leave no doubt as to this conclusion. See, e.g., In re Zohner, 156 B.R. 288 (D. Nev. 1993); Massey-Ferguson Inc. v. Childress, 89 Nev. 272, 510P.2d 1358 (1973); Hawthorne v. Smith, supra; Smith v. Stewart, supra, Lachman v. Walker, 15 Nev. 422 (1880); Hemdon v. Grilz, supra; In re Estate of Walley, 11 Nev. 260 (1876); Nevada Bank of San Francisco v. Treadway, 17 F. 887 (D. Nev. 1883). This rule was extended to its ultimate reach in Herndon v. Grilz, supra. Here, the Nevada Supreme Court, just 3 years ago, held “that when the right to claim a homestead and a judgment lien attach simultaneously to a piece of property, the homestead right prevails.” 112 Nev. at 878 (emphasis added). Thus, a declaration of homestead will defeat a prior lien of a creditor in Nevada, so long as the declaration comes before the property is executed against.

    Concerning the issue of the mortgage, alienation or abandonment of a homestead, the courts have strictly applied the requirements of NRS 115.040, supra. This protects the interests of the spouse who does not agree to mortgage or abandon the property. See, e.g., Goldman v. Clark, 1 Nev. 607 (1866); First Nat’l Bank v. Meyers, 39 Nev. 235, 150 P. 308 (1916); Mullikin v. Jones,
    7] Nev. 14, 278 P.2d 876 (1955); Allen v. Hernon, 74 Nev. 238, 328 P.2d 301 (1958); In re Lemons & Assocs., Inc., 69 B.R. 360 (D. Nev. 1987). The courts also use the approach in construing NRS 115.060, supra, upholding the homestead rights of survivors upon the death of a person who had previously declared a homestead. See, e.g., Smith v. Shrieves, 13 Nev. 303 (1878); Roberts v. Greer, supra; In re Estate of Cook, 34 Nev. 217, 117 P. 27 (1911); In re Am. Business Mech., Inc., 6 B.R. 166 (D. Nev. 1980).”

    for you to add to your info

  8. Johngault..my take on the non-recordation of the legal lien. Why would they not want to record their legal lien…? Didn’t the Supreme Court rule 130 years ago that recording of the legal assignment is the only way to deraign title in case their was a property dispute..? I have been told a lot of deceptive things. One recorders office in another county told me some times these transfers are done on computer from inside the bank.However, my county recorders office, under Mayor Daley, told me that NO ONE EVER recorded a legal lien in 18 years on my home….that means my house is paid for. I can live in it, sell it, or do whatever I want with it…….Yet, I am still in fraudclosure. The bank attorney told me they don’t have to record….but I know they do…The Illinois Conveyances Act (765 ILCS 5/1 et seq) requires it…Section 28 (765 ILCS 5/28), requires that all instruments affecting title to real estate shall be recorded in the County in which said real estate is situated. Those who know the truth realize this Breach of fiduciary duty, Breach of Contract, Failure to comply with the Duty of Good Faith and Fair Dealing, Consumer Fraud & Deceptive Practices, Fraud & Forgery, uttering forged instruments by the title companies …was intentional and intended to do harm to us and constitutes acts of RICO. The act of non recording of the legal assignment allowed massive fraud to be committed with our signatures without our knowledge. IMHO….that one fraud allowed Wall Street to render these mortgages insolvent…That act alone hid the ORIGINATION FRAUD and is by law, a case ending fatal flaw for the banks in every case. Because of the ORIGINATION FRAUD, there is no legal or monetary fix for the FED…The FED can repurchase insolvent mortgages for the next hundred years and that will not change the fact these mortgages are INSOLVENT because of the ORIGINATION FRAUD. Thanks for the prospectus info…I asked for a copy of that as well as a copy of the PSA months ago and have received no response to date. They think the people are stupid, like with the fast & furious docs that the DOJ won’t release, we know they are hiding criminality and that is criminal.

  9. @jg

    thanks so much, in our case the homestead was recorded 2 years after the original contract but before the notice of default (by 9 months) and 4 years before the two assignments to “trust”.

    It is one big mess, for sure

  10. “PREPAYMENT FACTORS: ………

    Property/Credit
    Borrowers could default on their loans, resulting in prepayment of a portion of the principal on the certificates. Because we guarantee the payment of principal on the certificates, a default by a borrower does not reduce the amount of principal that will be paid to certificateholders. If a mortgage loan becomes delinquent with respect
    to four or more consecutive monthly payments (or eight biweekly payments), however, we have the option to purchase the delinquent loan out of the pool.
    We will pass through the stated principal balance of the repurchased loan to certifiate holders on the distribution date in the month after the month in which the loan is repurchased. Thus, a loan that is delinquent with respect to four or more consecutive monthly payments (or eight biweekly payments) can have essentially the same effect on the timing of certificate principal repayment as a borrower prepayment.”

    So if FNMA has guaranteed payment and must repurchase whatever it sold to sec’n trusts in order to 86 its guarantee and have any rights of recourse against the borrower, why are secn trusts, parties with no right or cause of recourse if for no other reason than FNMA’s or anyone else’s guarantee, coming after us? Latest go-to since MERS post-consent order 86’d f/c’s in its name?
    Despite a bankster’s CLAIM of possession of a bearer note, these guarantees and their implications imo constitute issues of fact which
    can’t be legitimately ignored by a court: the derivative holders, at least those with a guarantee, have no rights of recourse against the homeowners.

  11. I have posited that payments on the loans are guaranteed and that as long as the guarantee is being honored, and thus the payments are made to the investors, the note is not in default. Imo, this proves it:

    FNMA Single-Family MBS Prospectus July 1, 2004
    Guaranteed Mortgage Pass-Through Certificates (Single-Family Residential Mortgage Loans)
    The Certificates
    We, the Federal National Mortgage Association or Fannie Mae, will issue and guarantee the mortgage pass-through certificates. Each issue of certificates will have its own identification number and will
    represent the ownership of a pool of residential mortgage loans secured by single-family one to four-unit dwellings, or by a pool of participation interests in loans of that type.

    Fannie Mae Guaranty
    We guarantee that the holders of the certificates will receive timely payments of interest and principal. We alone are responsible for making payments under our guaranty. The certificates and
    payments of principal and interest on the certificates are not guaranteed by the United States, and do not constitute a DEBT or OBLIGATION of the United States or any of its agencies or instrumentalities OTHER THAN Fannie Mae.

    It also proves the secn investors have no right of recourse against the homeowner(‘s property) UNless – maybe – FNMA has breached the
    contractual agreement / warranty, and then maybe only after barrelling thru the issue of FNMA’s guarantee. If FNMA is honoring its guarantee, the loan is not in default to the investors. If FNMA wants to stop honoring its guarantee, according to this perspectus, it must repurchase whatever has been sold to the investors, so no remedy required by the investors. The prospectus says FNMA may purchase these loans at 4 mos (think it was ) homeowner delinquency: this act is the one act FNMA may take to stop its guarantee obligation. Until it does, the loan is not in default. Imo. Also imo, these documents are judicially noticeable. There are many of these. This is just one. Get them while you can – FNMA’s website. google or yahoo “FNMA MBS Prospectus”.

    One unfortunate dangling participle remains: have all the gov and fnma and mba yeahoos gotten together and devised a plan to move these loans, and the movement made sure the FNMA guarantee
    was toast? How could that work? “We’ll buy these pieces of junk from you (or someone) and while we’re at it, we’ll let you off the hook for the guarantees?” Speculative, unlike the rest of this. But would it surprise any of us? Well, let them prove it if so. It’s not our burden.
    Okay, two remaining: did your loan go thru FNMA, or any other
    institution, which made a guarantee?

  12. @las vegas – I said the homestead wouldn’t rule over the interest of the original lender. That wouldn’t be true if the contract were invalid, but if the contract were invalid, that and not the homestead would be the argument.

  13. @las vegas, if an assignment of a dot has not been executed and recorded, one might have a prayer of using the NV large homestead exemption as a defense to an assgt recorded after the homestead
    exemption is recorded. That homestead would NOT be effective against the voluntary deed of trust given to the original lender, but it may provide a valid defense against the unrecorded interests of the claimant who now tries to stand on an assgt recorded after the H/S.
    The pi$$ing match is going to be about the intent of recordation –
    some courts hold it’s only done to protect the priority rights of
    the assignee (but imo, the assignee didn’t care much about its priority even against a homestead since it couldn’t be bothered to record its assignment) and purchasers who take in good faith without knowledge
    of the assignment. Yet certain bk trustees are able to avoid unrecorded interests in real property – they (and at least C-11 debtors) are able to avoid those alleged interests as the law finds
    those trustees to be good faith purchasers for value even if they
    have actual knowledge/notice (as opposed to the constructive notice of recordation). Now, that is a tenet of bk, but it is founded on some principle of notice which bears scrutiny for its potential positive impact for the homestead situation. I have a number of homestead cases, but none, I think, exactly on this point. I can say that if one filed bk with a homestead exemption recorded prior to an assignment and prevailed, the bk trustee is not to use his long arm to defeat the homestead for the benefit of the bk estate. Also, if one were successful, the court
    would have to find that the newly recorded interest encroaches on the homestead exemption, so get lost, bankster. Might be first impression as to an assignment and the banksters would fight tooth and nail because one case could set off a barrage of homesteads prior to
    recordation of assgts. I have learned a couple things about ‘equity’
    just lately, and here the law and equity might butt heads in favor of the bankster except in C-11 cases, I think. But one might not have anything to lose by asserting it. You might ask a lawyer, but most lawyers don’t understand homesteads, far as I can tell.

  14. What good is a government full of politicians who do not work to protect their own country or people from fraud and would go to such great lengths to make the people believe the lie that their wealth and assets could be wiped out and stolen in the blink of an eye…? The no good criminal imposter kind.

  15. @ Shadowcat RE: 6:53 post
    I have the “incoming wire notification” info from my closing in 2005 Not sure how that info helps – SENDER – they list my “Lender” ORIGINATOR – they list me
    Allonge did not turn up until 2010 and I have noticed an intentional marker slash on the bar code on the copy of the Note – but I have seen 2 different versions of this – wierd

  16. Enraged is a foreignor…? I knew you were an imposter…! What are you doing here…? Did Wall Street screw you or hire you to try and convince us we have no legal rights or protections in our own country….? Guess what…? You crooks and imposters can’t fool everyone. That is why you will NEVER WIN and steal OUR country with your fraudulent credit & investment scam…WHY?…Because you will never get EVERYONE to comply & conform and believe your lying b.s…There are too many American patriots and WE KNOW WHO the IMPOSTERS are and WE know the evil plan and WE are NOT going to let that happen…

  17. Johngault….Well the truth is an encumberance is not a legally enforceable lien….A mortgage is a lien but without the recorded legal assignment which can only go bank to bank…they have no legal right to take anything of value from you. Not only did you NOT AGREE to the banks committing fraud in your name and rendering your mortgage insolvent., but they had NO LEGAL RIGHT ATo do that IF THEY NEVER HELD LEGAL TITLE TO THE PROPERTY…..Without the legal assignment, which is where they committed the ORIGINATION FRAUD….they were not selling investors anything but gambles…I believe none of this fraud could have ever occurred without the TITLE COMPANIES full cooperation.

  18. @john gault

    why not record a homestead now? IF the contract isn’t kosher, why not file and record a homestead on the property? The homestead exemption in Nevada is $550,000, not quite chump change.

  19. Shadwocat,

    I’m lost here… “Why didnt you Say “Duct Tape” when my horns popped up?” What on earth are you talking about? Are you referring to my having recognized you? And why “duct tape”?

    Must be cultural thing… that i completely missed (you know, foreigner and all…)

  20. JG,

    Regardless what state you’re in and whether you opt to short sell or modify, as long as the risk of getting a 1099 remains, I would advise anyone to make darn sure to have all the docs reviewed by an attorney before signing anything and to have some kind of hold harmless in place as Mark Stopa indicated. Otherwise, it may very well force people into BK after the fact and that defeats the purpose of walking away to start anew.

    Whatever the rules are, we know they are not applied by servicers. As an example, the Debt Relief act is supposed to protect homeowners from getting a deficiency 1099 after the fact. It should be automatic. Servicers are not abiding by it anyway. Protect yourself beforehand.

  21. @ivent – what I can say is that a true blue encumberance given voluntarily on a homesteaded property is valid, and yes, that might be why they have a none-note-signing spouse execute the dot. But if they don’t have the none-note-signing spouse execute the dot and rely simply on that spouse’s waiver of homestead, they have a fight.

  22. @shadowcat @ 5:22 – that’s a wicked allegation which might just be true. What makes you think this? It’s wicked for reasons I can’t articulate fully this minute, but what leaps to mind is A) the note and dot are in fact bifurcated* and or B) MERS as nominee (even if only arguendo) is the nominee of a principal and that principal is the investor (under your allegation), who can buy derivatives or even home loans, but cannot make home loans. Further, only approved
    FNMA Seller / Servicers may sell loans to FNMA. Ditto FHLMC and
    GNMA. Investors as unwitting principals under the guise of MERS
    are not approved (lending license, etc) lenders nor approved seller / servicers. But before I strain my brain any further, I would sure like to know what makes you think that.
    *gets complicated by the endorsement on notes (if ART 3) and the fact, and it is a fact, that at the moment a homeowner signs a promissory note, if he got that loan from a broker, the broker has already sold the note to its sponsor. How do we know this? Because otherwise the sponsor would not provide funds for closing. If the broker’s name is on the note as payee, and the broker / payee has already sold the note to Sponsor X, like a Wells Fargo, if MERS is the nominee of a diff principal (the investor) then the note and dot are bifurcated. UNless Wells Fargo has already sold it (a loan which does not yet exist) forward to the investor OR the investor is the source of funds and the broker and the sponsor, WF, are the investors’ own ‘note nominees’, not a relationship contemplated by securitization that I know of. What a clusterflock. So, what makes you think this?

  23. So you are saying johngault signing the mortgage is not waiving your homestead rights unless they disclose that in their kinky contracts…? I believe that was no doubt true in Illinois at least in the year 2003. They no doubt kinked it up since then by not having the spouse sign the note, just the mortgage…They are alot of nasty things but they are mainly ..masters at the art of deception. They love to blur the line between reality & fiction. You can literally document how much they tried to cover up their fraud by creating new fraud throughout the paperwork. I see clearly how much the fraud ramped from 2003 to 2007….By the 2007 refi the fraud was undeniable…it is literally on the face of their recorded documents.

  24. johngault…the title companies are the trustees for the peoples property. It is their job to protect the titles on behalf of all parties to the transaction…They are who insures the title against fraud….In my case the title co employee was the escrowee…What more proof is needed..? That escrowees name appears at every closing…

  25. Signing a homestead waiver does not mean the homestead right is waived, fwiw. Uphill battle, but that’s the truth. The law sometimes frowns on and will not recognize contractual abandonment of statutory rights, especially in regard to contracts of adhesion.

  26. Sorry shadowcat….they have to disclose that BEFORE YOU SIGN….BY LAW IN ILLINOIS YOU CANNOT ALTER A MORTGAGE IN ANY WAY AFTER THE SIGNING….THAT IS FELONY FORGERY…THAT HAPPENED IN 2003…BTW…THAT IS NOT THE CURRENT PLAINTIFF.

  27. @ivent – you’re right about our induced reliance on title companies
    being the dot trustees. I’ve aready argued that here. Even though I have a major bone with some title companies, esp any who hold stock in what I call a joke, aka “MERS”, the title companies don’t substitute the trustee – the ben does. Now, if title companies allowed themselves to be the original trustees in MOMs in an effort to help induce our reliance when they knew that reliance was misplaced because they
    would never act as trustees, that some guy with a pulse would be
    sub’d in as a matter of certainty, I would definitely endorse your argument. That does appear to be the case, but how does one prove it? We know MERS and its members induced false reliance that
    “MERS”, and not what we learned is merely a software program, would act when in fact, MERS does not act at all. Unknown to the borrower is the FACT that by DESIGN, others, and with carte blanche, do in its name. Has there ever been a case where the original title company named as trustee has remained the dot trustee and performed its functions? (I’ll bet none and I’d bet more there are none after the Consent Order/ no more f/c’s in MERS’ -handy cover- name). If so, the pattern might support a preponderance of the evidence for a claim of false inducement, just as the mechanics of “MERS” actions taken by others support a pattern of false inducement. Lay opinions.

  28. I know Enraged. But I had try, … Even after all these years. No Child Left Behind …. Its hard to change old habits. Why didnt you Say “Duct Tape” when my horns popped up? hahaha … I hope I put a Smile on Your Face this weekend ….

  29. The truth about the Allonge is….the Allonge is a bank transfer…. not a LEGAL LIEN….without the legal assignment…..which IS the LEGAL LIEN…the Allonge is a bank transfer of fraud without the LEGAL ASSIGNMENT…

  30. The truth is….only the rich were “insured” on their “risks”…..these “risks” were known only to the “insiders” of this scam……The average American could have never known of the monumental fraud debt that Wall Street was creating with this credit scam. The title companies however, could have stopped it.

  31. @JG.. In the closing package, attatched to the Note….. its called an Allonge …. transfering from origionator to another party ( other party always left blank). Them Doodoo heads trashed the origionals and reproduced (robo signed) fakes. Broker/Origionators liked to be Flashy and produced their own Allonge that met indudtry standards… i.e. Print style, format, boarders etc… Do you have your Origional Unsigned Loan Package with the Allonge? Its a Powerful Weapon combined with the Wire Transfer. Especially if they have reproduced fakes and taken a stand in writing…. What Assignments? Assignment of collection Rights? … Sorry Ivent … you refied and signed the homestead waver …

  32. @enraged – we were talking about deficiency judgments and the IRS. Most states have a one-action rule (I think, anyway). A one action rule provides that there may ony be one action to recover on a debt secured by real property. Lenders have the option of proceeding with non-j fc or jud foreclosure (except in those states which only allow jud f/c). When they choose non-j, that is their one-action (assuming as I argue they haven’t taken a write-off as their election of remedies which should preclude the double remedy of f/c), and by so choosing, they abandon any right to a deficiency judgement. If a bankster chooses jud foreclosure, it might, only might, be able to get a judgment for the entire amt claimed due. It would depend on whether the loan were recourse or non-recourse and that would in turn depend on state statute and the circumstances of the loan – like owner occupied purchase, refi, non-owner. IF recourse, a subsequent sale of the home might find the lender with a deficiency and this might appropriately find a homeowner with a 1099 for an uncollectable deficiency judgment, but to me, uncollectable is the key word, and that would only be after it is known the bankster wrote it off as uncollectable. So, about those 1099’s for ‘debt forgiveness’, it seems to me more certainly that they aren’t appropriate in cases of
    non-j foreclosure and are only appropriate when judicial f/c has been implemented and the lender has written off the deficiency as
    uncollectable. A 1099 for debt forgiveness may be appropriate if one actually gets a debt reduction in a “modification” , which means the
    original loan has to be modified as a matter of fact and not
    conjecture. For all I really know, the 1099’s in play here, the ones people are worried about after this year, are only relevant as to modifications which were contemplated by HAMP. Right.
    But people do need to give some thought to this: I read that a bankster can get a def judgment even after accepting a short sale and after a short sale, the homeowner can get the dreaded l099 for debt forgiveness (when the bankster does not pursue a
    deficiency judgment). The hair being split here is that a short sale does not constitute an “action, as in “one-action”.

  33. Well lookey here…surprise….surprise….

    http://electronzio.com/

  34. @Shadowcat,

    You’re wasting your time. The point is really very simple: people had 401Ks, Keough, 403s, IRAs, savings and what not. A nest egg and plans for retirement. Those funds were invested to keep them from losing value and allow them to keep up with inflation (low yield, low risk) or they were invested in stocks with higher returns and with higher risks. Those people were the true investors who, unfortunately, were forced to go through brokers (such as Vanguard, in my case…) who, themselves, went through different intermediates to park those funds and rack up administration fees and such.

    One morning, people (who had played by the rules and made sure they would not depend on government for their future) realized it was all gone. And since they don’t know where it went and who was responsible for their disappearance, they have little to no recourse.

    To read over and over on this site that “there were NO investors” is offensive and insulting to those who lost it all through no fault of theirs, other than their reliance on the pro, the experts, the brokers vested with a fiduciary duty they breached in all impunity (Corzine comes to mind…).

    What I find interesting is that the people who most adamantly deny that investors lost their money and this horrendous manmade financial scandal are those who… had never planned for their own retirement, did not lose much and decided to simply walk away at the first sign of trouble rather than fight the good fight of faith. And those people keep harping over and over on the same nonsense, compounding insult to injury.

    Sometimes, I seriously wonder about freedom of speech…

  35. I discovered early on that the title companies are the real culprits here. They were the trustees for our property. They were supposed to be protecting ALL PARTIES TO THE TRANSACTION(S). THAT IS THE LAW and THAT IS WHAT IS KNOWN AS THEIR FIDUCIARY DUTY….

  36. I am talking about ALL of the “investors”…. esp the ones who were INSURED ON THOSE SO CALLED RISKY AAA….GOOD AS GOLD …INVESTMENTS… You cannot own what you never held legal title to…THEREFORE…you cannot legally sell investments or invest in what the Originator never held legal title to. That is called GAMBLING…NOT INVESTING…!

  37. No.. not so funny at all Ivent. There are the Investors who funded the Origional Loans .. long before the refi . Thats the problem .. those Investors never got paid back. You are grouping the investors in each seperate transaction as the same investor. What investor do you want to talk about? The one who funded the transaction or the one who paid the Marshmellow in the middle and bought it after closing?

  38. In reality, the title companies are the party who committed the ORIGINATION FRAUD…..THEY ARE THE TRUSTEES FOR OUR PROPERTY….THEY ARE WHO RECORDS THE LEGAL DOCS…IS WHAT AN ATTORNEY TOLD ME….THEY WOULD NOT WANT TO RAT ON THEMSELVES..!

  39. Besides the FACT it was a PONZI SCHEME….WHO WAS THE PARTY THAT SIGNED THOSE HUD 1s AND ATTESTED TO THE VALIDITY OF THAT TITLE….? THE TITLE COMPANY……IF THERE WAS NO RECORDED LEGAL ASSIGNMENT AFTER THE LOAN WAS “TRANSFERRED” TO THE SECOND BANK……THAT IS FRAUD……THEY HAD NO BUSINESS REFINANCING OR TAKING MONEY FROM INVESTORS OR ANYONE …IF THE TITLE CO DID THEIR JOBS THIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED…THEY TURNED A BLIND EYE TO FRAUD…THEREFORE,THEY AIDED & ABETTED THESE CRIMES.

  40. LOL shadowcat….the investors funded their own investments…It’s called a PONZI SCHEME…Did you read my comment below …? One attorney found out there were 607 investors in his clients mortgage & note…! Now that is a classic ponzi scheme…and that is criminal.

  41. Funny you should bring that up. The plaintiff in my fraudclosure is trying to use an old mortgage refi as an example of a legal transfer…they call it …the doctorine of conventional subrogation…yet they have no legal assignment from the previous “lender” tothe next “lender” and all they revealed was…. more fraud. I saved everything and discovered after the “signing” someone wrote under my signature that my signature was used solely to waive my homestead rights…that is felony forgery in the State of Illinois.

  42. Shadowcat…If by help you are suggesting that I participate, comply & conform with more fraud, that is not helping me or anyone. An attorney told me a while back, don’t sign or agree to anything in regards to their debt because their debt is unsustainable and can never be repaid. If you sign another agreement with them YOU WILL FAIL…IT IS ANOTHER SET UP TO FAIL…

    What you don’t understand shadowcat is…this is about taking EVERYTHING AWAY FROM THE PEOPLE ….ALL OF OUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE BY ORE LIES, DECEIT & FRAUD….

    THEY CANNOT HELP ME UNLESS THEY CAN SHOW ME DOCUMENTATION… THE CHAIN AND SHOW ME WHERE MY PAYMENTS WENT…? SHOW ME THEY PAID THE TREASURY BACK _BEFORE_ THEY SOLD INVESTMENTS IN MY MORTGAGE….TELL ME HOW MANY INVESTORS THERE ARE…THEY CAN’T … CAN THEY ASSURE ME THEIR CREDIT SYSTEM IS SOLVENT…? NO…THEY CAN’T ..!

  43. Why must you waive your homestead exemption to get that refi? If you dont sign it …. no mod.. no refi. I wonder why?

  44. No “Carrie … I know what I am talking about. What you are talking about is the refis not the purchase loans. Get all the facts before you spout ….. It would be intresting to see if you folks know the differance in the HUD settlement statements…. you know, what HUD is used in purchase loans and what HUD was used on refis. Why would they use a purchase HUD on a refi? Maybe to make it look like something it wasnt? Just thinkin aloud……

  45. NOPE, SHADOWCAT…investors funded NOTHING.

    Stop putting the spin on it for your own interests…it isn’t the truth:

    CDOs (collateralized debt obligations) were the investments that most “mortgage” security investors were investing in. They are largely synthetic because they were not derived directly from the asset itself — they were derived from the securities that were derived from the loan “assets.” The banks that owned the REMICs (the banks did own them), would package different tranches from multiple REMICs into CDOs — and that is what the pension funds, insurance companies, etc. would invest in.

  46. @JG, Invester funds did fund the warehouse lines, when the loan closed the lien was in favor of the investers via MERS.

  47. JG you sparked an idea thx- re credit line.

  48. I think NG believes the investor funds WERE the warehouse line. Maybe they were. I couldn’t know, none of us could without fullblown
    discovery and even then, they might have been able to hide it with
    intermediaries.

  49. @Ivent – where in the world did you get that one? They don’t need no stinking assignments. Assignments aren’t in play with warehouse lines. What’s in play is the collateral agreement between the bankster and whatever source funds their loans. Loans aren’t the property of warehouse lenders – they are only collateral. The loans are not assigned to the warehouse lenders – only the collateral agreement gives them any rights and those rights are contractually 86’d when the temp loan is paid off(and there is NO “assignment” going either direction). Now, a normal warehouse agreement would provide for rights of subrogation if the loan is not paid off and a normal warehouse line would prohibit the sale or alienation of a loan it holds as collateral until the temp loan is paid off. If this is your only evidence – no assignment – you are barking up the wrong tree. Sorry. But, all the same, if the warehouse loans were in fact not paid off, it would be inappropriate to confer payments rights on investors in trusts which were already subject to the rights of another. No can do. The warehouse loans had to be paid off prior to securitization, which if nothing else, means the investor funds couldn’t be used to pay off
    the warehouse lines. Hmmmm….hmmm because the psa’s gave them
    90 days to fill the pools. Did they use the investor funds to pay off the warehouse lines and if so, could they? And what if anything does that mean to bankruptcy remoteness?
    The AIG or other insurers couldn’t have rights of subrogation
    for this reason: rights of subrogation would have preceded the rights of derivative holders and been senior.

  50. NG says to deny stuff. Okay, maybe – I’d like to see that framed.
    In 999 out of 1000 cases, the bankster starts off with ” On May 1, 2003, the defendant executed a note to Schmobley & Co in the amt of 500k”. Really? This is hearsay and not a fact in evidence until it has been established by admissable evidence / testimony (but remember the impact under rule 8 of failure to deny). So must one deny it, or may one simply state a fact: UNTIL proved it remains hearsay and does not form the basis for relief in some stinking bankster mtn to
    dismiss or for SJ.
    If the bankster is the plaintiff and makes allegations, I don’t think rule 8’s failure to deny ramifications is in play until an answer is due, and an answer is not due if one has filed a dispositive motion, like one for sj or mtn to dismiss until the dispositive mtn has been adjudicated (then have 15? 20 days ? ask lawyer – to file an answer – denials and or affirmative defenses – if disp mtn not granted).
    What I’m trying to say is in my lay opinion, that statement in a complaint is merely an allegation (based on hearsay) and remains such until that document (the note with your orig autograph) has been admitted on the record on the basis of admissable evidence, which is likely 1) your admission or 2) your failure to deny or at least posit is hearsay at this point (complaint with no evidence regarding note).
    The endorsements, if any, have not been authenticated by admissable evidence, either and btw, attorneys can’t authenticate documents, tho they try. Martha over at Schmuckly Servicing cannot authenticate Arthur’s endorsement over at Joe’s Loan Office or
    CitiMortgage.
    (Declaration: “the note was endorsed to Claimant or in blank” – really? again) What you’re going to get is some bs allegedly based on “business records exceptions of the FRE’s, and if you or your attormey don’t know how to shut those down, the truth is, you may as well stay home.
    I think if the rules of evidence are known and implemented, it would take the bankster, not the homeowner, the village to prove anything.
    Lay opinions, as always.

  51. Ivent… our differances are what seperate you and me. We are so close, yet we are so far apart. Your just not the kinda person that another person wants to help……… run over maybe, but not help destroy lives. We have enough people to do that … including those who do it to themselves. Best Wishes!

  52. JOHNGAULT…THEY HAVE NO LEGAL ASSIGNMENTS THAT PROVE THEY PAID BACK THE TREASURY…THATS HOW I CAN PROVE IT…THERE IS NO LEGAL FIX FOR THAT….THE ORIGINATION FRAUD ALLOWED THEM TO COMMIT A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN CREDIT FRAUD WITH NO RISK…BECAUSE THEY HAD NO SKIN IN THE GAME….Rick Santelli of CNBC said A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO the U.S. TAXPAYERS ARE OWED GAZILLIONS BY THE FED….THE U.S. TAXPAYERS PAY FOR EVERYTHING UPFRONT….THE FED JUST PRINTS THE PAPER AND HANDS US BACK THEIR BAG OF IOU’S……THE FED BUYING TREASURIES FROM THE U.S. TAXPAYERS WITH OUR WEALTH IS NOT PAYING BACK THE ORIGINATION FRAUD…ANY RECYCLING OF INSOLVENT DEBT CREATES MORE DEBT….BLOOMBERG NEWS REPORTED THE FED COLLECTS TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS A MONTH IN MORTGAGE PAYMENTS…BERNANKE SAID THEY USE THOSE PAYMENT TO BUY TREASURIES WITH…! THAT IS A PONZI SCHEME…!

  53. shadowcat ….that tired excuse that you took a loan & “someone” is owed this “money” just doesn’t hold water. It is mind control & it is warped….We had NO KNOWLEGDE that we were being loaned horrible quality credit as the result of what was to come…a QUADRILLION dollars in unsustainable debt fraud committed by Wall Street with our signatures. However, if you want to allow these criminals to extort everything from you by handing these same crooks your money or property to pocket, and be a sucker…that is still your choice. They haven’t ushered in Complete Communism yet…but if they can’t fraudclose and steal with impunity or commit extortion by convincing you into forcing you to keep paying them for eternity, they will become more extreme because they are Fascists. Obama is the most severe fascist I have ever saw. But he is quite deceptive. I however, refuse to participate, comply and conform with any more of their fraud. Paying them money they are not owed or property they are not owed is not only empowering these crooks, who are stealing all of our wealth & property under many guises but I cannot, in good conscience aid & abet their crimes.

  54. @Ivent – please share the source of your allegations that 1) the treasury supplied the funds at the closing table and 2) that the loans
    (which I presume were intended to be short term) were not paid off.

  55. Disregarding other FACTS relevant to modifications, servicers are being required by (at least) FNMA to make loan qualification determinations which require home loan lending licenses. I still say
    mods require not only the appropriate license, but a new REG Z Truth in Lending Disclosure, which on info and belief, no one is getting. Is your bankster licensed as a lender or merely as a loan servicer? It’s an abomination – all of it. The procedure is fatally flawed, not even counting consideration of authority to modify. Well, we know this, and rehashing it is not the goal here. The goal is to get people who actually want “modifications” in a position to beat the banksters at their own game. In order to accomplish this, those people must take the time to understand the guidelines, etc. for modifications. A lot, if not all, the necessary ammo is at FNMA’s website. Here’s one of many:

    Most of the readers here, I think, are not looking for mods. But maybe we know people who are and they might be inspired to get ahead of the game by learning whatever they can to help themselves. They need to learn the formula, for instance, for calculating that ‘net present value’ thing which appears to me to be the true bottom line for whether one gets a modification or not. And is this at odds with the banksters accepting the HAMP billions? If it is, then when one calculates the net present value, having learned to do so, and finds rejection on that basis, time to make a majorly big deal of it.

    Most people tend to represent their finances, also for instance, in what they think is the most favorable light, but what if one can be overqualified for a mod? Then one might want to leave off the spouse’s income. Need to know the formulas, and I think the info is all available online – at FNMA’s website. People can learn the purported guidelines as to income, etc. and they can learn the prescribed timelines for communications and especially come to understand that net present value determination and how it impacts decisions. And as a reminder, recent case law holds that a borrower has a private right of action as an intended beneficiary of HAMP. In other words, if one wants a modification and qualifies without consideration of that net present value business, one should damn well get one, understanding the inherent risks associated with lack of authority etc., of course.

  56. Yes John .. so Very True. Those pesky Greedly lil wanna be Attorneys who raked in the big bucks creating and filing fraudulent docs with the courts. Like claiming their client owns something they really dont …. I already know of one Big Chigago Firm who is reaping what it has sewn, And its not pleasant to swallow … but they made the mess and they are going to take the responsibility of cleaning it up.

  57. Shadowcat…the truth is….the banks & the wizards of finance on Wall Street committed a quadrillion dollars in fraud with our electronic signatures. So not only is their debt insolvent, massive and unsustainable and can never be repaid by all of us but, any act of fraud in a legal contract destroys that legal contract. One attorney discovered his clients mortgage & notes had 607 investors. What I want to know is….why did they not pay the treasury back for the ORIGINATION FRAUD BEFORE THEY SOLD INVESTORS INVESTMENTS …? I think the answer is obvious….by not paying the Treasury back which would have gave them a LEGAL LIEN..A RECORDABLE ASSIGNMENT….that would not have oversold investments…BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE HAD SKIN IN THE GAME….THE BANKS ALSO HAD NO LEGAL RIGHT TO POCKET OUR PAYMENTS IF THEY NEVER PAID BACK THE ORIGINATION MONEY TO THE TREASURY…

    Now I believe these mortgages are insolvent because of their massive fraud….the banks are who owe the American people gazillions…they don’t deserve another dime from us and these politicians should all resign.

  58. @jg. Nice case

  59. Thing is shadowcat
    I’m a hard head and I want my day in court and I’ll try and try to get my day in court my court must protect me each case is different and until I turn over every stone I need to find my own peace with the situation

  60. Aurora was after Carlsen. They went to trial and this is the transcript.
    I don’t remember what if any discovery were done, but I do note (from some case I have somewhere) that “there is no trial without discovery”. Motions and responses in this action are posted (by me) at scribd. Despite the plethora of objections to the testimony of Aurora’s one ‘witness’ at trial, the trial court amazingly ruled in Aurora’s favor.
    That ruling was overturned on appeal (scribd). The attorney for Carlsen did a good job with his hearsay and foundation objections. I thought he could have presented other objections based on the FRE’s, also.
    To get past motions for sj and to dismiss, one has to make a case
    that triable issues of fact remain. There may be (must be?) clues in the pleadings.
    This transcript and case were in a particular court whose dockets I can’t access. Someone went to a lot of trouble to get this transcript for me, for us, so I’d like to say thank you to the two involved who
    saw to it we might benefit from this transcript. The objections to this witnesses’s testimony are the same OR related to objections to
    the affidavits and declarations currently being used by banksters to
    defeat discovery and trial, i.e., in support of their motions for sj or to dismiss. Imo, bankster declarants NEVER establish their competency or actual knowledge to establish what they claim in these docs, and are thus ripe for attack IF one will take the time to study the rules of evidence and case law in support and be ready to recon or appeal
    an adverse ruling when the ruling ignores well-founded objections or a motion to strike the declaration or affidavit.
    Let’s say Aurora had a f/c sale scheduled and it were imminent. I don’t think an appeal stops the sale, but on info and belief, a Rule 59 (but not a rule 60) mtn in the trial court (mol reconsideration) operates to suspend the judgment of the trial court. If a Rule 59 mtn does that, it may give one time to get the appeal ready and seek injunctive relief pending the appeal. These are technical procedural issues which require the expertise and tenacity of a good lawyer, but a lay person may still research and get stuff ready for an attorney.

  61. Debrah .. the banks defrauded you and took your home & money. The banks are insolvent. Who do you want to pay you … the Investor/Saver/retiree who alreadly took a big loss or are insolvent themselves because of the fraud just like you? Or the taxpayers whos grandchildren will pay for it for years to come. Thats right … your Grandkids and Great Grandkids will pay … just as will mine. I will ask around and see if we find any takers. I’m not saying what happend was not wrong … because it was! There needs to be prosecutions and we need to do everything in our power to make sure this does not get dumped on our grandkids for generations to come. I know its not perfect … but its what we got to work with. I wish you the very best!

  62. I’m reading these other posts ” you owe somebody ” for one that somebody – under the contract is clouded, excuse the pun ,
    My take, I put down money ( all i had – a mistake – never put all your eggs in one basket – but they would take the other eggs anyway) in good faith money that represented a lifetimes hard work no one gave me it and I did not inherit it like tons of other folks I was told property was going up n up I was told I had equity in the property and so I signed because I did not know about the ponzu scheme in place until I find myself upside down withno way to re finance out lower my payments or sell ince the real estate bubble burst , And we all know what came next the all time modification scam to get fore runners like myself past a point if no return to foreclose under power of sale as fast as possible it was to process … LPS poised and ready, . So with the consequential harm how can I owe anyone they got the house but I get to loose everything including my credit score my reputation the fact that my employer sees a foreclosure and a bk filing on my credit report and being 50. .. Think , promotion? Not any Time soon , And then the total loss of enjoyment of my life fighting for justice. Excuse me. Do I owe someone rather someone owes me I had the right to rely and the right of truth in a contract being the single most important investment of my life. What I believe we/I owe is our kids a fight against what is going down as we blogg here and it is going down like an elevator and if we don’t stop and get off the elevator somehow we are going down unless we hold on to a concept of truth good and equality and hopefully justice in the end ( non resistant methods) because whilst we were complacent our perceived civil liberties that we trusted were in fact in place and That we were protected were in fact allowed to be sabotaged By a very greedy but powerful ( in their own minds ) minority , and not in a small insignificant way but deliberately and precisely to achieve not just the shift of weakth but the balance of power and ti control Ok I’m off the soap box now does” venting ” help. Not really wha wha wha im over the past. What’s done is done but we need to work towards protecting our children that we do owe.

  63. The circumstances surrounding each fc were differant. Its difficult to tell if you have a claim, … as state laws vary from state to state. You should seek an attorney to answer you legal questions. Most attorneys will not charge a fee for a consultation, if they take your case they usually require a retainer. Good Luck and Best of Wishes to You!

  64. Oops- should read peeling back the layers if you like ( sorry )

  65. @ivent
    Yes,
    It’s just that typically when the public don’t get it…( And I’m still perking back the layers of evil doing of you like, ) I work with the public from all social classes and I pay attention, snd so i fear that unless we get the message out quickly with a plea for non resistance peaceful protesting , say a step up from the wall street protest -,and I don’t know how, I hope someone comes up with a media site or something or anything that might prevent the typical reaction that results when a government fails so miserably with high unemployment and the rise in price of basic necessities and commodities . I wish there was a way to prevent that kind of a reaction , that’s what I’m saying. I just don’t want to see that kind of civil unrest manifest because it’s a bad way to go and frankly, I think it’s what ” they” want. It’s a bad way.

  66. questions
    should I get a lawyer?
    facts
    lost house Dec 2008/ so long ago
    Downey Savings and Loans/ out of business
    how can I afford a lawyer?

  67. @forclosedwith30kids, Your Welcome Sweetie! I know you are looking for answers … We all are … I’ve been waiting for 10yrs for a solution. Someone has been throwing garbage into the wheels of Justice to slow it down for 10yrs now. It is time to clean the Goverments House of Horrors … If there is not Transparency & Disclosure, how can the average consumer figure out the Ponzi scheme… Its taken 10yrs to unravel the mummy in the room…and in the light without his cover-ups… he shall burn. I see the Mummy and I see the Light, they shall meet soon!

  68. shadowcat..Thank you for rewording what I was trying to say.
    lvent…I just want to be able to understand what you are saying and you add so many othet ideas in to the mix. I am trying to understand how/ why I lost my home, savings, 401k, etc. I come to this sight to for education and understanding how others have been affected.
    I can see this has affected all of us in deferent ways. I do hope we can use each other that will help

  69. @Ivent… I can not believe I am saying this but … I agree with your last statement posted here. I would like to add thou … that you do owe somebody, you borrowed the money to buy the house Right? Don’t you want to make sure the right party is paid? If you loaned someone money .. you would want paid back right? Why do you think the REAL lender of the money filed suit against the banks? We all know what they did .. we are looking for a Solution. I just happen to disagree with your opinion of how to do it. Is that why you do not have an attorney? Your opinions .. your rambleings and demands? I would think with an attorney.. your case would be a no-brainer. ps… I understand you much better when you are not yelling and rambling on about 50 things at one time … Just sayin …

  70. Your last statement, I am in complete agreement.

  71. The truth is ….this is a bank balance sheet recession. They like to blur the line between fact and fiction. The fact is, what they are hiding is they are insolvent. The fiction is that we owe them any of our hard earned money or property. We don’t.

  72. 4closure30kids….I have never been naive about real evil in the world. I had a wonderfully intelligent Grandmother who always pointed out the hidden evils in the world to me. Some would have called her superstitious and fearful.. I call her a realist. She did not trust these people because she grew up during the last great depression and knew what they were capable of. I am sorry if you might be mistaking my exposure of their methods to achieve their evil end game plans for mankind as cold or callous. That is how they operate. All I can say is trying to keep an open mind is useful. An attorney once told me, you can’t go into battle unarmed. You have to know who your enemy is and what they want and why they want it.
    What I have discovered is evil knows no bounds and these people are control freaks who will stop at virtually nothing to make us believe they own and control us. If you do your research, you will find that in reality, they don’t. They like to blur that line between reality & fiction.
    Best of Luck to you in your family. I hope you can find the truth about their massive fraud and then you will be free from their mind control.

  73. lvent, Thank you for taking the time to send me this information. I understand you are a very well read person, I do hope you don’t let these readings develop who you are as a person. These writings are just some peoples opions of life, in the moment they were writing. Some people need to write to release their anger, or frustration, or confusion, and if that helps them, great. Life can be very hard at times, but there is always goodness around as well. I do wish well for you. Take some time to read less and live life more. The sun is warm, the skies are blue, flowers smell great….I wish for a sweet and wonderful day, I am sorry life has been so hard for you.

  74. @Deborah wynn…..not participating by not cooperating, complying and conforming with fraud is a peaceful form of resistance.

  75. to all,
    i know my posts can be a bit gauche but i thought about the title of this particular subject and non resistance. violence will be met with a force that will hurt on every level and does not serve. apart from the example set by the spartan greek warriors long time BC i thought of my own son and his wisdom,
    he came home one day with bruised cheek and jaw and i asked him what the heck, his situation was a kid at school had some kind of grudge and my son was approached by this other kid and 10 others with him, my sons friend sat in the car whilst my son faced the other kid and his back up, my son said he stood in front of his adversary and told his freind not to get out of the car…my son took a few punches from the other kid and stood facing him, the other 10 watched whilst my son stoodnd exchanged words of whatever i was not told why. the kid then walked away. i asked my son did you whack him back, he said hell no there were 10 of them mom. (he was 15 or 16)
    so non resistance can be very powerful….consequently my son got a huge amount of respect from the other 10 kids and a few months later they were all in shall we say, pecking order.

  76. Good night , I wish you all well. I truly do hope justice will come.

  77. 4closed….The truth is..we have ALL been hurt beyond what we can even imagine. Many haven’t realized it yet…it’s coming if we don’t petition these Congress people to put referendums on the 2012 ballot to restore the power back to the American people… The power of our vote is not in voting for politicians…the power of our vote is in restoring our Constitution…our Bill of Rights, issuing our own currency via state banks, & abolishing Obamacare ..

  78. lvent,
    No other agenda…just a simple gal, being a mom, a woman , a wife. Yes I am nieve, and simple minded. I have been hurt by the banks,
    but it sounds like you have been hurt beyond what I could imagine. I am so sorry. I hope you will find justice for what ever has happened.

  79. We need to petition these Congress people & Senators for referendums on the 2012 ballot to restore the U.S. CONSTITUTION …THE U.S. BILL OF RIGHTS….ISSUE OUR OWN CURRENCY VIA STATE BANKS…ABOLISH OBAMACARE….we need to use the POWER OF OUR VOTE….to commit an OUTSIDE JOB on their INSIDE JOB…sue and abolish the UNCONSTITUTIONAL & ILLEGAL FED……!

  80. I have sent many thoughts their way and they were not warm…The truth is…..they don’t care about us, or what we think…at all. If they did, they would not be aiding & abetting the FED, a private bank….in robbing the American people for their insolvent debt fraud that is bankrupting our country….The truth about the FED is ….they are our enemy and they are controlled by the enemies of freedom & independence…..both foreign and domestic. Those entrusted with the peoples wealth and security, the politicians, have been allowing themselves via the FED to use the U.S. Treasury Dept and our wealth as their own personal investment piggy bank.

  81. ToLLe,

    I saw that video a few days ago and I thought: “Amazing! Monsanto polluted Boston harbor for decades and no one knew what they were up to. Monsanto poisoned millions of Americans. No one said anything. Monsanto started spreading worldwide and… country after country rejected it. It’s coming back to roost… and it can’t kill as much anymore: humanity woke up!”

    I was working for AIG (Monsanto’s insurer) and I recall lawsuit after lawsuit and AIG paying increasingly big bucks to undo what it was doing, coast to coast. When it became very costly to insure, Monsanto started spreading worldwide and tried to get China, Europe and India to foot its expenses and increase its profit. Didn’t last very long. No one wants it. Worldwide.

    It’s out in the open. You bet I’ll put a positive spin on it! It is unraveling. It didn’t become that big overnight. And it took big American bucks from greedy investors looking for a 20% return overnight. Greed made it grow to what it is. The economic crisis will stop it from growing like the cancer that it is. Warren Buffett and Bill Gates are pushing it to Africa with their own bucks but… once those two are gone, there’s no one left to push Monsanto.

    It won’t keel over overnight. It is definitely on its way out. That part will be coming faster.

    All good. It’s moving!

  82. 4 closed …if you think I am giving these control freaks way too much credit….you better do your homework because you are either way behind the learning curve or you have some other agenda…

  83. 4closed….sorry…but, IF you really “got it “…you would say just the opposite is true….. You would say it is the Govt Corp who are over the top and way out of control and are abusing their power all over the place. The truth about who these people are and all of their evil plans for mankind are no longer hidden and can no longer be debunked and written off as so called crazy conspiracy theories. These people are control freaks with an agenda that flies in the face of freedom & independence.

  84. lvent…you really are giving these people to much credit, they are not that smart. Use your gift of writing in a way that gets people to listen to you, not fear you.

  85. Try posting all the email or web addresses of our gov here. So we can all band together and send some warm thoughts their way.

  86. Monsanto..Big Pharma, the medical establishment, the press & mainstream media coverups, lies, and fabrications, the Obama deception, Obamas deceptions….like failure is progress, an education system that teaches the masses what the Govt Corp wants the masses to believe, (these are severe mind control tactics)… the FED, fascism disguised as what’s good for us, Obamacare & the hidden microchip & other hidden tyranny in 1300 pages of mass confusion, regulations that protect no one, insuring fraud to protect the rich, severely weakening the Constitution & the Bill of Rights under the guise of protecting us and insuring peace & security, Foreclosuregate, recycling insolvent debt creates wealth, credit is wealth, Homeland Security, Fraudulently induced debt by issuing worthless credit, a credit based financial system that is not a monetary system, innoculations, HAARP, TBTF, chemtrails, pesticides and chemicals in our food, causing illnesses with ‘no cure’ are just some of their weapons of mass destruction they have been using for decades to try and achieve Complete Control of not only everything, but everyone….they want Complete Communism…TOTALITARIANISM ..

  87. lvent…I get it and at some level I agree. Where my concerns are when words like; evil plans, criminal conspiracy, control over american people are brought up you start to sound unbalanced and a little over the top. I do think people should go to jail over this, banks should be closed, polititions if corupt should be booted out.
    I just don’t want people to ignore what you are trying to say, because you have taken it to far.

  88. 4closed….sorry you don’t “get it”….. This is a vast criminal conspiracy… You suggest I get my own website…? Why would I put myself in a box when I can expose them and all of their evil plans for mankind all over the Internet…….? Sorry, I am not going to make it that easy on them. To those of us who “get it”..we know what this is about…this is about FREEDOM for the American people from these imposter crooks and their QUADRILLION DOLLARS in manufactured CREDIT & DEBT tyranny and oppression…..REGAINING OUR INDEPENDENCE … We can’t do that without exposing WHO these imposter crooks ARE and their method to acheive all of their evil plans for mankind..hope you figure their evil plan out….so you can join us someday…Their plan is Complete Control of the American people and all of our wealth and property by using secrets, lies and deception to defraud the American people out of everything…the OVERSELLING OF INVESTMENTS IN NOTHING BY WALL STREET..in exchange for the issuance of CREDIT & DEBT ….NOTHING OF VALUE ……is their financial weapon of mass destruction ….they plan to use that and other lies and deceptions to acheice their evil end game plan which is to institute Complete Communism…which is TOTALITARIANISM …

  89. Darn keyboard…

    2nd to last line of my blurb: “Self-imposed limitations”

  90. @Seeking,

    The Fed hasn’t printed one bill since 2008. It’s been a virtual system for a long time. Still is. Won’t go away.

    What is happening goes beyond banks, America, China, Russia, Iran or Israel, the mighty dollar, a lousy house and a car payment, student loans, Monsanto, pharma, religion and trivial crap that has never helped anyone reach his full potential.

    Disclosure is in full blast, like it or not. And it’s hitting MSM (Main Street Media).

    UFO Secrets To Be Revealed At National Atomic Testing Museum

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/21/ufo-secrets-national-atomic-testing-museum_n_1902019.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing6|dl17|sec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D208954

    This world has had all the answers for 70 years and has kept them hidden from everyone. We can decide to fear them or we can embrace them. Nothing can stop what is happening, whichever way we decide to react. If you choose to embrace it, Dr. Steven Greer has a lot of the answers as well.

    I’ll embrace them. Know why? Because, in the end, I’ll still die and so will you. I choose to die happy, with a vision of a fantastic future, whether here or elsewhere. Religion did a job on us. It kept us enslaved for thousands of years. Did you ever see Gawd? Do you know anyone who has? Did whoever saw Gawd beat death? Nah!

    Well, the green guys know a lot we don’t and they are real.

    I’ll still post interesting foreclosure-related stuff because knowing helps people get into the fight and realize his potential by stretching his own self-imposed but… it is so inconsequential in the big scheme of things!

  91. Violence is Never the Answer. Our Military Members are our Family Members .. We need to surround Congress and Run Out All the Turkeys and Buttwipes and Replace them with Burgers, Fries and American Pies. My Military will be standing beside me and not in front of me …. Where will your Military Be? PS…. BonFire afterwards .. serving Trukey! …..*Reality Check #5*

  92. @E.Tolle

    “…topple their ilk”…okay—I’m on board—how exactly do we do that?

  93. What is coming very soon……

    The Fed announced on September 13th that it will buy $40 Billion in MBS per month for an indefinate period of time. Not disclossed, they will then use these little gems they obtain by printing the money out of thin air, and will hedge with derivatives.

    Do a little research, don’t believe me! The FRN’s will be a great source of toilet paper soon, maybe a little rough. China already announced it is trading Oil based on Yuan instead of dollars. When Iraq did this…..welll……….

    Anyway, treat this as a garbage post UNTIL you do your own research.

    Meanwhile, we are all busy worring about which puppet will be on stage for the next 4 years!

  94. Re; lvent last stand
    ok…humm! Am I still at the right web site? What the hell are you talking about?
    You could start your own site, you seem to have a lot to say…about…something…not sure what….but I am sure you could get your own following..

  95. FOX NEWS reporting homesellers are having a difficult time closing the deals……

  96. WE THE PEOPLE NATIONWIDE NEED TO TAKE OUR MONEY OUT & SUE THE FED….Government lawsuits only benefit the Government…not the American people.

  97. @4closed30kids..their credit system collapsed long ago. They sold investors investments in debt that never existed..it was all a work of fraud & fiction……When the banks sold us these empty bills of credit in exchange for our wealth and signatures and they committed a quadrillion dollars in fraud with those signatures, with no collateral backing up those sales, they set the AMERICAN PEOPLE & AMERICA UP TO FAIL….ALONG WITH NAFTA, this was an evil plan. Their fraud was massive, intentional and intended to do us permanent harm. What has been occurring since their intentional stock market crash is an ongoing robbery of our wealth and property to weaken the people. They are obviously insolvent and the Wall Street crooks who caused this mess, are still creating debt with whatever remaining wealth & property the people have left. The credit that is still being lent and the insolvent debt that is still being recycled is a work of fiction. Their debt is obviously insolvent because the economy is getting worse…their quadrillion dollar fraud is unsustainable and can never be repaid by the American people, these crooks however, have quadrillions of ill gotten gains hidden overseas….. The American people did not create this insolvent debt, nor did we, or could we have had knowledge of what they were doing with our electronic signatures. If they decide to carry out their evil plan to its end game…beware the fixes for that fraud. They want to declare America broke when it is THE FED, A PRIVATE BANK, WHO ARE INSOLVENT…they will seize our wealth, under the guise of their debt, they will then microchip and enslave us to their debt to oppress us and enslave us…We need our own currency issued via State Banks….We The People need to take the money out…sue and abolish the FED…RESTORE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION…ABOLISH OBAMACARE VIA OUR VOTES…

  98. Spin away Enraged. I hope you’re right.

    This has nothing to do with foreclosure, but I know we share a keen interest in all things Monsanto, which I for one believe to be as close a replica as there ever has been to the evil inherent in the Nazi war machine, so here’s a movie link. Pop some popcorn….their greedy rat-bastard scientists haven’t gotten their filthy hands all over popcorn genes yet, as there’s simply not enough money in it to soothe their gluttonous evil ways.

    I had the pleasure of studying with one of the soil scientists in the movie, and can say that if the rest are of his caliber, they’re all top notch in my book.

    http://geneticroulettemovie.com/

    We need to band together and topple their ilk not only from power, but from the planet. They aren’t worthy of being called human beings.

    I was told that this is a pre-premier viewing link, as it will be going to pay-per-view shortly, so don’t wait too long. It’s a must see movie. I give it two Petri dishes up.

  99. NEITHER OF THE CANIDATES FOR PRESIDENT WILL HELP WITH SOCIAL UNREST. WHAT A CHOICE FOR AMERICA.

    http://stopforeclosurefraud.com/2012/08/29/better-know-a-bundler-romneys-personal-predatory-lender-hint-docx-lps/

  100. Yep!

    Maryland Dept of Taxation (IRS) appears to have filed a $14 trillion lien against the federal reserve.

    Since i don’t know what that means, I’ll keep putting a good spin on it.

  101. We need our own currency issued now…before a credit collapse.

  102. As the saying goes in Chicago…pigs get fat, hogs don’t get re-elected.

  103. Let the collapse happen…so we can change.

  104. Like the saying goes…pigs get fat…hogs get slaughtered.

  105. @carie….their problem is… they thought they were too smart and they would never get caught red handed.

  106. We keep handing our money & our property to this insolvent Gov Corp….WHO ARE STRANGERS…..who never pay us back..and they keep taking more & more…. The result of that is….sooner or later we will be broke and homeless…. When will we wake up & say enough is enough…? We have been handing them Gazillions…the economy keeps getting worse and they keep threatening us with a credit collapse…? That means it is time to stop handing them our money.

  107. @Ivent

    “They would rather destroy the world than accept defeat.”

    Exactly…I fear that’s where we’re headed…sounds like Gaddafi…and he really got it in the end, didn’t he?

  108. John McCain on FOX saying this is a vast left wing conspiracy. He said Obama is not working for American interests at home or abroad.

  109. The truth about their debt is, it is a work of fiction, it never existed. However, it is being used as a weapon of financial mass destruction. I agree with guests this morning on FOX show Cashing In….the Gov Corp are acting like fascists. The politicians created this GIANT INVESTMENT BANK CREDIT SYSTEM to use as a piggy bank for themselves and their rich comrades. If their is a CREDIT COLLAPSE, it will be completely manufactured, like their entire CREDIT CRISIS to completely control the people. They have received GAZILLIONS in U.S. TAXPAYER WEALTH…AND THEY ARE STILL ROBBING THE PEOPLE…? THEY ARE INSOLVENT OR THEY ARE NOT..THEY CANNOT BE BOTH…! INSOLVENT INSTITUTIONS HAVE NO MONEY AND NO ASSETS….SO…TAKE THE MONEY OUT AMERICA..! THAT’S THE ONLY THING THE ARROGANT GREEDY JERKS UNDERSTAND….! WE NEED A NATIONWIDE MORTGAGE & TAX REVOLT..! ALL OF OUR WEALTH IS BEING STOLEN AND OUR ASSETS ARE BEING STRIPPED FOR DEBT THAT WAS OVERSOLD & IN REALITY NEVER EXISTED…..STOP THESE CROOKS AMERICA…!

  110. With all due respect, saying something like, “I think that the economy will improve substantially in 2013. And it will continue to improve for perhaps a decade….” Is akin to saying you believe there’s life on the dark side of the moon. It’s complete conjecture, and thus any rationalization following that statement is also.

    I happen to believe that collapse is right around the corner, but I won’t make a statement such as that without at least some corroborating evidence, and suffice it to say that there’s plenty of evidence to back that scenario up. What evidence could you offer up as to your rosy view? Not meant as an attack….more as a thoughtful debate question.

  111. How do I know Obamas full of it.? We are still bailing out these TBTF crooks and they have never been audited to see WHY we are still bailing out these crooks….??? I don’t buy any of the excuses that its Congress fault or this crisis is enormous…This should not still be going on.If Obama can override Congress by declaring war from another country without their permission..create a Supreme Congress.. sign over 900 EO’s ….protect Eric Holders criminal rearend….and kill bin laden….he can stop the FED…He is a power tripping egotistic dictator …there is no other explanation…

  112. Beware their fixes for fraud. These so called “fringe people” understand their evil plan … that’s why they sound nuts…because the central planners are psychopathic control freaks. They would rather destroy the world than accept defeat. They do want Global Totalitarianism …that has always been their evil plan. If Obama gets 4 more years, that is presicely what we will get…If we don’t accept it peaceably …. it will be by force…..like OBAMACARE…After he signed NDAA and forced OBAMACARE on the people…And finding out the microchipping of the people is hidden in there…the over 900 EO’s he has signed…the ongoing bailouts …TARP, HAMP, the fascist FED policies that are debauching the currency….fascism by the politicians to keep raising taxes in a poor economy….ongoing fraudclosures…inflated prices…& on & on…I don’t trust that man…..! Who and why would anyone want 4 more years of Obama’s failures…?

  113. I think that the economy will improve substantially in 2013. And it will continue to improve for perhaps a decade, but the cycle were on is caused by our FED, that is owned/controlled by the Rothschild Banking Cartel. What we have gone through is part massive fraud by Wall Street and the TBTF Banks, and it was timed to precede the normal downturn. We need to understand the history of money.

    It’s not what backs the money, it’s who controls it’s quanity. And it needs to be our Congress.

  114. I played by the rules, I was even happy about the rules..I fostered over 30 children in our home….and loved them with all my heart ..I gave my heart and soul to these children ..I did everything by the book…Now 20 years have passed…I have lost my want….How do these people sleep at night…I am sick to my tummy ….how do I teach my kids to respect and do the right thing…I have lost my way……I have lost the want….I have lost….jaime of san jose

  115. 4closed,

    That’s why i hang on to fringe and keep expecting the best. In my world, good always prevails. It has to. Otherwise, this life is the most cruel joke ever played on any animal species: giving humans the sense of right and wrong along with free will and abandoning them when they play by the rules.

    Simply impossible.

  116. Well my truth is…I went from being a very very positive person regarding being part of the social world..working hard…10 yrs to paying off my house…saving for retirerment…adding money to my savings…paying my CC on time ….credit scores around 800….to loosing my house…depression….bankrupsy…..angry…retirerment…doughtful….CC who cares….credit scores…I just dont give a dam

  117. Directly from those fringe sites:

    “COMPTROLLER OF MARYLAND 1101 WOOTON PARKWAY ROCKVILLE, MD 20852

    And the Secured Parties?

    Secured Party Information for File Number: 0000000181425776
    Name Address

    THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY 1789 (Assignor)
    50 MARYLAND AVENUE ROCKVILLE, MD 20850

    NORTH AMERICAN WATER AND POWER ALLIANCE (Assignor)
    400 DEFENSE PENTAGON WASHINGTON, DC 20301 – 1400

    U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE (IRS) (Assignee)
    600 ATLANTIC AVENUE BOSTON, MA 02106

    And if you click over here to the underlying document, what’s the amount involved in this UCC filing? How about just north of $14-trillion dollars?”

    Yep! I’ll put a good spin on that. Sick and tired of fighting and I want to start breathing better.

  118. I meant “Maybe we’re about to get our money back”. Damn keyboard.

  119. Don’t know what to make of this… A few fringe sites are reporting it and posting the link for Maryland department of taxation showing the fed as obligor and the U.S.A. as obligee.

    Friday, September 21, 2012
    UPDATED: TREASURY TO FORECLOSE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM?

    http://sdatcert3.resiusa.org/UCC-Charter/UCC_AckDetails.aspx?AckNumber=1000362002135657&FileNumber=0000000181425776&EntityName=THE+FEDERAL+RESERVE+SYSTEM&CurrentOnly=true

    Maybe we’re about to get out back… Maybe the banks are about to be dismantled… That’s the spin I’ll put on it until proven otherwise. Makes me sleep a lot better than all the gloom-and-doom spread here.

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