F-Bomb on Display on PBS Piece on Fraud by the Banks

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/untouchables/

“To hear some on Wall Street tell it, no one saw the financial crisis coming. As Jamie Dimon, the chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase, explained to the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, “In mortgage underwriting, somehow we just missed … that home prices don’t go up forever.”

Others were less confident. In fact, well before the housing bubble burst, alarm bells were starting  to sound among key players in the mortgage industry: due diligence underwriters.

Due diligence underwriters are paid by banks to assess the risk of buying mortgage portfolios. In the run-up to the crisis, they were among the first to suspect that loosening loan standards could pose a potentially catastrophic threat to the economy.

Several due diligence underwriters — most speaking publicly for the first time — told FRONTLINE correspondent Martin Smith that it wasn’t uncommon to see school teachers claiming salaries of $12,000 a month on their mortgage applications, or electricians moving from $500 a month in rent to homes worth $650,000. The only problem — their supervisors didn’t seem to want to hear about it.

“Fraud in the due diligence world, fraud was the F-word or the F-bomb,” said Tom Leonard. “You didn’t use that word,” — Jason Breslow, PBS

VIDEO: Fraud Was the F-Word as Contract Hourly Workers Toiled into the Night

Editor’s Comment: Most of the questions and answers are over and they lead straight to the top of the mega banks. If there was any actual risk of loss as opposed to the illusion of a risk of loss, most of the loans would not have been approved.

Since the banks were playing with investor money and essentially stealing it they had created a labyrinth of paperwork that was vague enough to enable them to claim plausible deniability and even the outright lie that Jamie Dimon told when he said that they never saw the meltdown coming because they too thought the market would always go up.

They stacked and compounded the risk elements such that the banks would be paid, the investors would lose their entire investment and the homeowners would be lured into deals that could not possibly work — especially when you factor in the known fact that the prices were spiked higher than anytime in the history of record keeping relative to actual value and the median income required to pay the mortgages. At the heart was fraud: fraud in the appraisal, fraud in the “underwriting,” fraud in the ratings, and fraud in the way the money chain and document chains were handled.

What has escaped most media analysts is that the higher the risk, the more money the banks made. By increasing the risk elements as high as they could go, the nominal interest rate on the loan was as high as it could go. By increasing the interest rate, less money was funded for loans than what was expected by the investors.

In order to achieve the expected return of $50,000 per year, the loan could have been a 5% loan, which is what the investors expected, and the Principal funded would be $1 million. If the interest rate was 10%, meaning the probability of repayment was low at best, then the funding goes down to $500,000 creating the illusion of satisfying the goal of $50,000 per year. If the interest rate was 15%, meaning there was no likelihood at all that the loan would survive, then the funding would have been $333,000.

But in both the 10% loan and the 15% loan, the investor advanced $1 million expecting the loan to be a safe loan to a credit worthy person on a piece of property that was truly worth more than the loan.  Thus a yield spread was created and the premium on that yield spread would have been $500,000 for the 10% loan, and $667,000 for the 15% loan. Where did the money go? Into the profits of the banks as proprietary trading activity that were all fictitious transactions.

The banks were supposed to provide triple-A rated bonds backed by good performing loans in which the viability of the deal had been underwritten, verified and confirmed as to income, value of the property etc. — and not just on the first day of the loan where the borrower paid a teaser rate.

Ask any banker doing conventional loans whether he or she would have approved any of the loans taken at random from the piles at Countrywide or WAMU. The answer is NO. I know because I did ask. Real loans have real risk. These were neither real loans nor did they carry any risk of loss to the purported players who were mere intermediaries violating the blueprint set forth in the prospectus and pooling and servicing agreement.

The mega banks, knowing that the loans were completely void for a variety of reasons, and knowing that the banks would some day need to create the illusion of an accounting, needed a state document (deed on foreclosure) to close the book or else the investors and borrowers would end up owning the bank.

But they went further. Having tasted the red meat of astonishing profit  margins they sought to increase their gains to astrophysical levels. They bought insurance and credit default swaps betting against the the very same loans they had underwritten and the very same bogus mortgage bonds they had underwritten and sold.

The results are well known. Banks collected 100% on the dollar repeatedly on the same loans and bonds even though none of the loans or bonds confirmed to the requirements of the disclosures to both the investors and the borrowers.

From http://www.pbs.org—–by Jason M. Breslow

One of Leonard’s peers, Eileen Loiacono, saw much of the same.

“You couldn’t say the word ‘fraud’ because we couldn’t prove that it was fraud. … Even if we suspected, we had to say, ‘This appears to be incorrect.’ You would never say, ‘This looks fraudulent.’”

In The Untouchables, premiering tonight, FRONTLINE examines why not one Wall Street executive has been prosecuted for fraud tied to the sale of bad mortgages. Through interviews with prosecutors, government officials and industry whistleblowers, the film raises new questions over whether senior bankers either ignored or contributed to fraud while inflating the bubble through the purchase and securitization of shoddy loans.

The Untouchables airs tonight on most PBS stations, (check your local listings here) or you can watch it online, starting at 10 pm EST.

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33 Responses

  1. RIGHT ON KEEPON…..THE FED OWNERS …..THE POLITICIANS AND THE JUDICIARY ARE ALL CROOKS AND THEY ARE ALL OUT OF CONTROL AND ARE IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF ALL OF OUR LEGAL RIGHTS….THEY ARE SNEAKY AND DECEPTIVE CRIMINAL STRIPPER CROOKS….! THEY ARE TRYING TO USURP THE SUPER POWER OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE VIA THE FOURTEENTH & 11TH AMENDMENT THEY HAVE TURNED ON WE THE PEOPLE….THE NINTH AMENDMENT ….9/11…..VIA AMENDMENT 14….MWAHAHA…THEY ARE EVIL & CRIMINALLY DECEPTIVE CRIMINAL FELONS….!

  2. Come ON now! Hadn’t seen THIS one: Valukas, Lehman: Repo 105:

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/01/ian-fraser-something-sinister-about-the-lack-of-prosecutions-at-lehman-brothers.html

    …and Peoples’ lives are wasting away in foreclosure for WHAT reason (tell me again)? …and POTUS and DOJ can’t find a CRIME, or a CRIMINAL? ….and WE’re the Deadbeats- the “irresponsible” parties? …and those of us who couldn’t afford usurious mortgages- WE’re expected to find a lawyer to work for nothing to defend 1 house @ a time?

    Yes,yes. Very funny. Very, very funny! How sick.

  3. Unfortunately ya can’t trust Suri eithe. She mis directs a;ll the time. Ha Ha! Watch the Video Bain VMERS melissa huelsman WA supreme court, and you will see attorney Pratt for MERS literally boasting MERS was soley invented to move over a million unmovable loans in from the1980’s S & L crisis. Boasting the crime as being a miracle to move over a million unmovable loans. Crime pays! MERS worked so well they have continued to date. To destroy the American dream, by MERS shell game and the annie and Freddie shell game. Look up Shawn Newman Fannie and Freddie Shell Game posted under foreclosure defense. Showing Freddie and Fannie had set a policy of never recieveing any notes.

  4. Read this book
    Robert j ringer written in 1980
    Below is from his book
    It cites Jim Davidson ( a brit comedian but im sure its not the same guy) hus words:
    ” you pool your life and property with those of other citizens and cast them into the electoral pot, NOT TO BE PUT AT THE DISPOSAL OF POLITICIANS. Those who win the election promise to manipulate you to achieve the “common good” more often than not…. The politicians are really promising to steal from you to reward special interests”
    ( emphasis mine)
    R j ringers book 1980 – restoring the americandream. I support that this book be introduced into schools as compulsory reading as part of its history.
    Btw tried to correct the americandream with spacing iphone says ” no replacements found” i told siri. God ihopeso

  5. Typo in my notes. Should read:
    Even though he insisted that we put his name on these deeds, and knowing that he did *NOT* have the time to review any of it for validity, much less time to sign he insisted his name be on every deed and every affidavit.

  6. Just heard about this. Meanwhile look who wrote me last week:

    http://mortgagemovies.blogspot.com/2013/01/kingcast-and-whistleblower-jose.html

    WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 23, 2013

    KingCast, Mortgage Movies and Whistleblower Jose Portillo expose the 8,000 fraudulent Shapiro & Burson signatures that must result in substantial Baltimore Circuit Court sanctions.

    Top video is phone interview with Mr. Portillo; second video is this week’s Speak Up! show with Nashua’s former State Rep Kevin Avard (R). We discuss a lot of mortgage issues.

    I am working out a way to inform those who may be affected without overburdening myself with 8,000 emails. Stay tuned.

    My interview notes:

    Savage was adamant that the deeds were all in his name. He insisted that we put his name on all of the deeds conveying title from homeowner back to the banks (as clients for Shapiro & Burson).

    Even though he insisted that we put his name on these deeds, and knowing that he did have the time to review any of it for validity, much less time to sign he insisted his name be on every deed and every affidavit.

    As a result I have 8,000 documents…. and I am sure that many of these properties have indeed changed hands.

    The Maryland grievance commission reprimanded this attorney…. what does that say for the chain of title. Is it a valid transaction at this point.

    Does it mean that there is a defect?

    “Or cloud….. it is a big f____ deal and they can’t say it isn’t” (from me).

    So they reprimanded him but what about the title?

    Westport E & O audited, they lied and WP sued and asked for my Depo.

    Settled out of court.

    “Westport attorneys contacted me and asked if I wanted to take part in Deposition, and I said “Sure” and they settled once S & B knew I was going to testify.”

    Then Freddie Mac contacted me…..

  7. That’s right judge because these dictators are all appointed….stop working for, patronizing and paying these evil crooks…

  8. And the doctors will tell you there is no cure for epilepsy and don’t take any vitamins if you are epileptic…..
    LIARS..THE TRUTH IS…..THEY ALL WORK FOR BIG PHARMA…..AND THE BANK OWNERS ARE ALL INVESTED IN THESE DRUG COMPANIES AND THEIR PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS..

    http://www.mgwater.com/rod07.shtml

  9. I saw that Frontline show and it was very, very good. If none of these crooks go to jail our country is a foregone conclusion :( Do not vote for any Incumbent of any Party ! ! ! !

  10. These politicians are feeding us fear about gun violence while Licensed Professional Medical Doctors ARE FEEDING DANGEROUS PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS LIKE DEPAKOTE to people of all ages to treat SEIZURES & MIGRAINES….AND THEY HAND OUT XANAX LIKE CANDY……I HAVE A FRIEND WHOSE SON HAS EPILEPSY AND SAID THE DRUG DEPAKOTE MAKES THEIR NORMALLY SWEETHEART SON ACT LIKE A ZOMBIE… MOODY & VIOLENT…..AND THE KID DOES NOT HAVE A SEVERE SEIZURE DISORDER…..HIS SEIZURES ARE ONLY TRIGGERED BY SLEEP DEPRIVATION……AND THE DRUG DOES NOT PREVENT SEIZURES IF YOU ARE 2 OR 3 DAYS SLEEP DEPRIVED….AND DOES NOT LESSEN THE SEVERITY OF THE SEIZURES NOTICEBLY….BUT THE DOCTORS HAVE THE PARENTS FEAR MONGERED INTO BELIEVING OTHER DRUGS HAVE MORE SEVERE SIDE EFFECTS…..THE DOCTORS ARE TREATING THE ILLNESS AND NOT THE CAUSE…SLEEP DEPRIVATION…I HAVE A NEIGHBOR WHO IS A WACKED OUT XANNIE TRIPPING BRAINDEAD ZOMBIE BECAUSE SHE CAN’T COPE WITH HER HANDICAPPED CHILD…..AGAIN TREATING THE DOCTORS ARE TREATING THE ILLNESS AND NOT THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM….AND THEY CALL THEMSELVES MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS….. .and the so called entertainment industry hands our kids sexually explicit and violent programs, movies…music lyrics and video games…..while their parents slave away to service debt of these bank owner slavemasters fraudulently induced by the corrupt politicians…..THAT’S RIGHT AMERICA….THE INMATES ARE RUNNING THE ASYLUM …PUT DOWN THE BOOZE..PILLS & PORN & BOYCOTT THESE CROOKS…

  11. The link below works….MUST READ….!

  12. Read all about the bank owners communist scam to create a TOTALITARIAN ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT…..

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/New_World_Order/BigOil_Bankers_PersianGulf.html

    If they block the link…GOOGLE IT….IT IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST READ…

  13. I compare the bank owners to Charlie Manson and their perps to the Manson Family…..all equally criminal and eligible for the death penalty in some states….Especially in Texas where the Bushes live…

  14. The bank owners are the real criminal masterminds here….their slavery is fraudulently induced and all in the mind…..the bank owners use our money…credit lending & investing on our brains like a psychotropic drug….

  15. The banksters were the liars, just as they are the deadbeats. Parasites , leaches on the American tax payers and homeowners. They have enslaved us. I have been telling people for a long time slavery was never ended. All of us are slaves all colors short tall thin or hefty we are all slaves of our government and financial institutions and we need to boycott debt.

  16. The feeling is mutual on steroids EVIL TROLLER…..

  17. That’s right Shelley….the banking scam is outed…..THE BANKS DON’T LEND……THEY BORROW OUR WEALTH….LEND US CREDIT…..NEVER PAY US BACK THE ORIGINAL LOAN….AKA THE ORIGINATION FRAUD….POCKET ALL OF OUR PAYMENTS AS USURY…..AND OVERISSUE INVESTMENTS IN ALL OF THEIR CRAPPY CREDIT VIA THEIR INVESTMENT BANKS ON WALL STREET…..AND INSURE THEMSELVES ON ALL THE RISK THEY INTEND TO CREATE…THEN THEY BLOW THEIR FRAUD UP……BURST THE BUBBLE THEY CREATE BY INSIDER TRADING…. HAND THE U.S. TAXPAYERS THEIR FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED BILL FOR OUR OWN ROBBERY ….THEY CALL THEIR FRAUD……..OUR DEBT….AND IT IS ESTIMATED TO BE A QUADRILLION DOLLARS…..THE BANK OWNERS ARE A WANTONED CRIMINAL DEBT CARTEL…..DISGUISED AS THE POLITICIANS…..THE BANKS….THE FED….AND WALL STREET….. . THEY INTENTIONALLY DESTROY THE VALUE OF EVERYTHING…..AND ROB & DESTROY NATIONS BY SECRETS, LIES AND DECEPTION WITH FULL INTENT TO DEFRAUD & DESTROY…TO ROB & TO STEAL EVERYTHING FROM THE CITIZENRY ……WHY….? THEY ARE EVIL COMMUNISTS AND WHAT THEY WANT IS FOR EVERYONE TO BELIEVE THE BIG LIES THAT THEY OWN EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE…..THEY WANT TOTALITARIANISM …… COMPLETE COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF EVERYTHING…. BY A SMALL ELITEIST GROUP OF SELF APPOINTED DICTATORS….AKA…..THE NEW WORLD ORDER…….THEY WANT TO MICROCHIP US TO THEIR DEBT FOR ETERNITY….FROM CRADLE TO GRAVE THEY WANT COMPLETE CONTROL AND THEY DO NOT PAY FOR ANYTHING AND THEY DO NOT OWN ANYTHING….THEY USE THE U.S. TAXPAYERS MONEY TO DO ALL OF THEIR DIRTY WORK….

    THE TRUTH IS…..THESE WERE ALL LIARS LOANS BECAUSE…..THE BANKS DO NOT LEND….THEY STEAL….

  18. Yes good ridence and bend over! So the American people can kick you were your head belongs.

  19. You’re an idiot straps/unvent….

  20. These crooked politicians are obviously TRAITORS who are working for the bank owners and not WE THE PEOPLE who pay for everything……

    THEREFORE AMERICA…YOO HOO….WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE…..?

    HELLO….ARE YOU IN THERE…..?

    THESE CROOKS ARE COMING FOR YOUR ALL OF YOUR WEALTH & FREEDOM…… THESE CROOKS WANT TOTALITARIANISM…..DO YOU HEAR ME…..? THEY WANT COMPLETE COMMUNISM…..COMPLETE CONTROL OF NOT JUST YOUR GUNS BUT ALL OF YOUR WEALTH AND ASSETS…..THE BANK OWNERS WANT ALL OF US TO BE THEIR SLAVES FOR LIFE…… AND THE POLITICIANS ARE IN ON IT….!

    ARE YOU PEOPLE BIGGER ZOMBIES THAN THESE CRIMINAL BANKS……? PUT DOWN THE PILLS…BOOZE..PORN….AND THE REMOTE CONTROL……SCREW THEIR LOTTERY THEY USE TO ROB YOU WITH………

    IT IS WAY PAST TIME WE THE PEOPLE SNAPPED THE HELL OUT OF IT AND WOKE THE HELL UP and THREW A REAL TEA PARTY AND STOPPED AIDING & ABETTING THESE CRIMES AGAINST US ….

    HOW…?

    STOP PAYING THESE CROOKS TO ROB US INTO FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED POVERTY….STOP PARTICIPATING WITH ALL THEIR TREASON AND CRIMINAL FRAUD …

  21. In the Washington Post’s article detailing Lanny Breuer stepping down from the DOJ today, they start off their piece with their usual upside down view of the situation, as seen here:

    “Lanny A. Breuer is leaving the Justice Department after leading the agency’s efforts to clamp down on public corruption and financial fraud at the nation’s largest banks, according to several people familiar with the matter.”

    All 25 of the comments are people who are foaming at the mouth wanting to see him prosecuted for treason, fraud, or simply thrown in jail for other good measures not mentioned. The people are awakening to the ludicrous sideshow that Obama and company are continuing to try and get away with. Cracks are showing in the façade. The emperor has no clothes, and his Potemkin village just lost an idiot. Good riddance asshole.

  22. Bill HR6706 exemps banks from FDCPA law. Noooooooooo no no no!

  23. Posted for a friend! First of all, investors are never the LENDER to home borrowers. No security investors can EVER lend money to consumers. And, this is why they are not responsible for federal law violations. If any money is lent, it would not be directly from “security investor” to borrower. Securities law precludes this. Second, security investors are never held responsible for TILA violations — since they are NOT Lenders by law. Further, security investors cannot “refinance” a loan.

    Neil assume this. Assume homeowner is NOT in default, paying all along. But, homeowner wants one of two things — 1) rescission for TILA violations 2) a refinance with their Lender. If a securities trust/trustee is now recorded as the current OWNER of the loan (as original Lender is gone), who can the homeowner either sue for rescission or contact for a refinance??? WHO IS THEIR LENDER???

    Superfund is absurd concept. All this refers to is warehouse lines of credit to make it appear that funds were transferred in subprime refinances. No funds transferred —- no need to “lend” at all for transfer of servicing rights on collection rights (that is all the subprime refinance was). If security investors were some how “duped” as to pass-through of cash flows, their only recourse is against the security underwriter. They CANNOT go after the homeowner. Just as the homeowner cannot go after them for TILA and federal law violations.
    My opinion (Shelley) is the foreclosers are debt collectors under FDCPA law and are co-obligors Cal your represenatives and tell them not to pass Bill HR6706.

  24. …….and MR. UPPER ECHELON, WELL EDUCATED CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR…President Obama is a liar for saying publicly what Wall Street did was reckless but not criminal..therefore, he is just as guilty as the criminals who did this for publicly deceiving and lying to the American people he is not only completely arrogant but, he publicly and openly admitted he is engaging in a conspiracy to cover up for these crimes. He earns $350,000.00 per year but claims he earns millions. WTF is that…? He is not hiding he is worth $10 million dollars but he was a community organizer, did a short stint as a UIC law professor and a 2 year term as a State Senator.. All of it stinks like sulfur..

  25. You couldn’t prove that it was fraud……? Where were they looking for it….? Oh that’s right, they weren’t.

    A while back, the CEO from FANNIE MAE was told they were going to be Criminally investigated but not charged. His reply…..WAIT A MINUTE…..YOU GUYS TOLD US WE COULD DO THIS….

    There you have it….the crooks at the top sure knew it was criminal but, they were told BY THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS FROM WITHIN…they could wantonly commit numerous felonies because the BANK OWNERS….and ALL their GLOBALIST CRIMINAL CRONY CAPITALIST COMMUNIST WEALTH DESTROYING HOG FRIENDS had an EVIL PLAN TO DESTROY AMERICA…. and everyone was going to get rich off of the backs of THE U.S. TAXPAYERS…AND ROB US OF EVERYTHING AND DESTROY THE VALUE OF EVERYTHING BY ROBBING THE U.S. TREASURY, IN OUR NAMES, AND OVERISSUE INVESTMENTS IN CREDIT SLIPS BY COUNTERFEITING MORTGAGES & FORGING OUR SIGNATURES ZILLIONS OF TIMES PER NOTE & MORTGAGE…AND THEY WOULD ALL BUY BIG FAT INSURANCE POLICIES THAT THEY WOULD CASH WHEN THE JUNK BONDS THEY SOLD THE U.S. TAXPAYERS BLOW UP BECAUSE OF ALL OF THEIR SECRETS…LIES…& DECEPTION TO DEFRAUD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE……THEY WOULD STEAL ALL OUR WEALTH AND PROPERTY…

    WANT PROOF THIS WAS PRE-MEDITATED….? Fannie Mae publicly admitted they multiple pledged notes and nothing was done. THAT IS FRAUD….YOU LEARN THIS YOUR FIRST YEAR IN LAW SCHOOL….THE RULE OF LAW SAYS THEY CAN’T SEPARATE THE MORTGAGE AND THE NOTE AND NO ASSIGNMENT IS A NULLITY OF BOTH…THEREFORE….THEY ARE ALL CROOKS..

  26. Mine was too, how the heck did I get sub-prime…they changed all the numbers and “THEY” defaulted before my loan was even originated…2 months prior, notations, in blue ink, right hand side of the bottom of the page. 12/26/2006, closed 02/27/2007

  27. Posted for a friend.It appears…….

    The Wall Street/Banks SUBPRIME PONZI of “NON-FUNDING” (they used MERS to grease it) all started with GSE (Fannie/Freddie) CHARGE-OFFS IN 2000—ie. “MANUFACTURED DEFAULTS”…do you REALLY think banks would actually FUND all those “loans”?? Really? Well, they didn’t.
    Those (fake) “loan” refinances (subprime/alt-a) and jumbo new purchases were non-compliant and non-performing MANUFACTURED DEFAULTS—so NO FUNDING at all was necessary (except for a little cash-out for some loans). The warehouse lines of credit NEVER ACTUALLY TRANSFERRED ANY ACTUAL CASH FOR FUNDING. These lines of credit were actually “credit lines” that the “Depositor” would provide to their correspondent lenders. Once the “loan” refinance origination was completed the Depositor would then reverse the “credit” owed by the correspondent (originator). This never involved ANY ACTUAL DEPOSIT OF CASH PROCEEDS—the “funding” payoff check was never “deposited” into ANY bank account!! The check was routed to a security derivative clearing house—who then simply CANCELED the credit line transaction.
    WE DIDN’T GET “MORTGAGES”—THERE WERE NO “NOTES”—THE DEBT-BUYERS GOT “COLLECTION RIGHTS”…which means the “debt” is unsecured and can be discharged in BK…instead, we get lies, lies, lies, and illegal foreclosures.

  28. never mind the income (i was full doc) what about the appraisal, the appraisers knew they stretched the numbers, over and over, the “lender” they established their “business relationship” with knew what they were creating especially when they were a sophistocated developer and title company and became a holdings company- they had to be on the inside, they cannot plead ignorance or they never knew housing prices would go down the developer im talking about created a darn waiting list and people had to PAY to get on it- they drove house “prices” up deliberately and aggressively. As Neil said, value is another thing, especially if anyone putting their money at risk knew about the Ponzi scheme, how on earth is a layperson to know what was going on, i had never heard of MERS never mind Default swaps and derivatives.

  29. AND HERE:

  30. Very nicely done.

  31. Why won’t any network take on the subject of the OCC’s offer of foreclosure review ?

    And its year-long lack of action ?

    And who this ‘agent’ will be to disperse funds ?

    And who will these people (who do not have to fill out the very long and involved application) be notified that they may participate in this event ?

    Again, why won’t anyone take on the ‘elephant’ in the room ?

  32. More lies…you can verify almost anyone’s income, particularly if they work for the state, Federal Government or are employees of any company…very little diligence is required. Liars all of them!

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