How Does Insurance Payee Match Up with Claims of Ownership of the Loan?

There have been many admissions by government officials and even parties to the litigation over mortgage Foreclosures to the effect that at this point the ownership of most loans is in doubt. Even President Obama said it, reflecting the views and advice of the senior advisors at the White House. On appeal, recently in California, BOTH sides admitted they had no way of identifying the true creditor — and that is why we have all this litigation, why we have gridlock on modifications and settlements. So what do we do?

One insurance expert I interviewed suggested that his industry might solve the problem, but I think his points raise more questions than answers. Nonetheless, to prove the question, and overcome certain presumptions that are legally applied, examining the insurance policies and the changes that occur in forced placed insurance might reveal the issues and even illuminate the potential solution.

Bank of America is an example of a bank that rushes to take any excuse to place insurance from their own carrier BalBOA, naming BOA as the loss payee on liability policies. The usual previous loss payee was someone else — perhaps the originator or some alleged assignee. The procedure of forced placed insurance creates both additional income to the bank and skips over the question of who owns the loan. When the insurance is reinstated or shown to have never lapsed in the the first place, it often names BOA thus lending support to the bank’s position that it is the owner of the loan.

Looking at the title insurance, who is the loss payee? Besides the owner’s policy there is a rider for the mortgagee named in the mortgage. Of course that party may not be a mortgagee when the mortgage is examined carefully. But changes in loss payees under title insurance usually requires notice and consent of the owner of the property.

Thus the question could be asked in Discovery about who was responsible for tracking title insurance, liability insurance and PMI, why does the policy name a loss payee other than the bank claiming ownership and what efforts were made by the bank to correct the identity of the creditor?

The same thing applies to PMI. If the payee is somebody different than the Forecloser you will notice that none of the banks allege that this is a breach of the mortgage contract. Why not? I think it is because the insurer would demand more proof than what is offered in court as to ownership and that the bank would not be able to satisfy the insurer that it had an insurable interest in the property.

26 Responses

  1. Condoning violence and blaming one person is being one of the sheep. Need to get educated on how WallSt is robbing us while buying off these people that will shut down our country in order to deny health insurance?

  2. “…you are promoting fear of loss in children for non compliance and promoting violence for adults?”

    ???????????????????????????????? Just for the hell of it, Dr. Spock died years ago, after having admitted to his screwing up with generations of parents and kids with his stupid theories he recanted. This country is 300 years old and completely fucked up all across the board because of so many “experts” who experimented on someone else’s kids. And health. And education. And… pretty much everything that, until then, had served humanity for 250,000 years.

    I am always amazed of the tone of the reactions from people who do not agree with me. So much for freedom of speech. Any question why this country is so fucked up? Look at the electors and you’ll understand why we have who we have in power.

  3. The problem with Bank of America’s stooge outfit BalBoa placing “forced-place insurance” on your house, additional to the next step of putting the outrageous premiums on your tab, is that, in the event of a loss, the BofA insurance policy will conflict with your own insurance, and you will NOT get paid. You end up with the same result when BofA is made a “named loss payee” or “named insured” on you own policy. The reason is that insurers will refuse to pay out, together, more than the total value of the insured property. Thus, you have to force them to cancel that forced-place. You do that by filing a separate suit against the insurer, alleging tortious interference with your contract of insurance, and other claims including deceit. They will likely cancel flat the forced-place.

    For the same reason you never ever put that disputed servicer or mortgagee on your own policy. If you do , and there is a loss, the insurer will issue a check payable to both of you, and after you sign it and send it to them, they will simply keep the proceeds and mark it as a reduction of your “debt.” You will be left with a ruined house. The idea is to evict you without need to go to court. Who is going to live in a ruined house?

  4. I am all for the adult violence. Christine was dead on. It is we, the people that define our nation. A bunch of tallywhackers letting dumbOshit lead us into destruction does convey a certain message; we are weak. We are and have been allowing one little man, so to speak, RUIN us, ruin US.
    I do not condone violence but if that is what it takes……darn right violence! In an unimaginable, numerous outburst. America needs a massive set back, but alas – it has, and is happening all over again.Our sheeple will never win for the factor of fear IS great, it has a seemingly unlimited surplus to offer and violence may be the only cure.
    Goodnight as well.

  5. Oh ….. if anyone asks, my sarcasm is brought to you by my menopause… I’ve had plenty of coffee.

    That’s my Truth and I’m Sticking to It!
    🙂

  6. Oh My! I’m striking nerves today ….

    Christine, you are promoting fear of loss in children for non compliance and promoting violence for adults? Did you get your coffee today?
    Or is it still menopause? Both of the above?

    Stripes, What did I say today to deserve your reincarnation?

    Deb, I meant no offence to you. Its a “tick” I have and I tend to come across a little rough. Sorry!

    Blessing to All and to All a Good Night!

  7. Thanks Paul, will have a read.

    How are you? Want to catch up sometime soon? Maybe at Jacquie’s or somewhere closer for you?

  8. oh wait, wait wait, wait….I know the answer to that one…………………

    …….we steal their homes

  9. How to get everyone so pissed off that people do, indeed, resort to violence. Which is long overdue anyway. So… it will come. Compliments of the bunch of incompetent assholes whose salaries this country keeps paying du-ti-ful-ly, so that they keep enriching themselves with money from banks in which… people du-ti-ful-ly keep theirs.

    Does anyone have any idea why the world is looking at this real estate piece called “The USA”? Simple: however stupid its people are, the land stays. The people…? Jury’s still out. Depends when they’ll get a brain.

    Who gets paid in a shutdown and who doesn’t?
    By Jeanne Sahadi @CNNMoney October 1, 2013: 5:36 PM ET

  10. Got THAT right, E.Tolle.

  11. Priceless!

    All those clowns are being called “Honorable so and so”. What is even more priceless is how diplomatically Lew begs for a few billions here and there when the friggin’ country is indebted to the world to the tune of trillions and 50% of the population is on food stamps.

    Is that the best “Plan B” they could come up with?

  12. Surprising?

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-03/us-banks-stuffing-atms-20-30-more-cash-case-panicked-withdrawals

    US Banks Stuffing ATMs With 20-30% More Cash In Case Of Panicked Withdrawals

    Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/03/2013 18:31 -0400

    Even as the fearmongering over the debt ceiling hits proportions not seen since 2011 (when it was the precipitous drop in the market that catalyzed a resolution in the final minutes, and when four consecutive 400 point up and down DJIA days cemented the deal – a scenario that may be repeated again), some banks are taking things more seriously, and being well-aware that when it comes to banks, any initial panic merely perpetuates more panic, have taken some radical steps. The FT reports that “two of the country’s 10 biggest banks said they were putting into place a “playbook” used in August 2011 when the government last came close to breaching the debt ceiling. One senior executive said his bank was delivering 20-30 per cent more cash than usual in case panicked customers tried to withdraw funds en masse. Banks are also holding daily emergency meetings [Isn’t that a tad late…?] to discuss other steps, including possible free overdrafts for customers reliant on social security payments from the government.
    The problem with bank runs is that often times, steps taken to mitigate future panics become self-fulfilling prophecies. Hopefully this is not one of those cases. Then again, since increasingly fewer Americans actually have money in deposit and savings accounts with banks there is likely nothing to worry about.

  13. In the meantime, and while people here continue believing that this country has all the answers and is the greatest in the world, the world is getting very antsy. Obama (or whoever is the puppeteer pulling his strings) has/have one chance to fix the mess. ONLY one: disclosure and release of all the zero-point technology gathered from Roswell on and kept completely occult. If he doesn’t, the Russians, Mexico or any other country will.

    And when that day happens, America will be done. And so will Europe… The tide is turning very fast.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/alexander-lukashenko-obama_n_4036078.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl7|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D385944

    Alexander Lukashenko, Belarus’ President, Lashes Out At Obama

    By YURAS KARMANAU 10/03/13 08:53 AM ET EDT

    MINSK, Belarus — MINSK, Belarus (AP) — The Belarusian president has lashed out against President Barack Obama, drawing a comparison between American exceptionalism and Nazism.

    Alexander Lukashenko told the Kazakh TV station 24.kz that Belarus had “already survived this ‘exceptionalism’ … which cost us 50 million lives.” He appeared to be referring to the number some cite as the Soviet death toll during World War II, although most historians put the figure between 20 million and 30 million.

    In the interview, which was shown in Belarus on Thursday, Lukashenko said he was surprised that Obama would promote such rhetoric, given he comes from a country “where black people were slaves not all that long ago.”

    Lukashenko, who has ruled Belarus with an iron fist for nearly two decades, has been known for his outbursts in the past. In 2011, he called European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso a “goat.”

    But this time he appeared to be taking his lead from Russian President Vladimir Putin, who took to the opinion pages of The New York Times in September to criticize Obama’s description of America as exceptional.

    In making the case for holding the Syrian government accountable for a deadly chemical weapons attack, Obama had asserted that American ideals and principles were at stake. “That’s what makes America different,” Obama said. “That’s what makes us exceptional.”

  14. Jellybeans,

    I posted something on it a while back (3 or 4 weeks ago). The thing is… just one bad apple shouldn’t deter people. Anyone who is in the fight has been thoroughly F*&^*’d by attorneys, the banks and everyone able to say “Money”. Even I got screwed out of $6,000 I didn’t have. It’s part of the risk.

    And what Szemoniak has to realize is that, as public as her victory was, her downfall will as well (if the allegations prove to be true and verifiable which, according to what Mandelman reviewed and posted, they seem to be.)

    Divine justice at work. Nobody will get away with screwing fellow human beings. The paradigm has completely changed.

  15. And just for the hell of it…

    OH is the 2nd hub for Chase, as most people know. Big, huge push right now to get people to accept modifications, as though bankers had lit fire crakers under their seats or something. And those mods suck every bit as much as the one they offered 4 years ago. Upwards, loaded with fees and definitely future foreclosure material…

    Been referring people to my attorney left and right. Because, when people were begging for a mod and faxing their papers 5, 10 times, nowadays, Chase is literally “chasing” them to take a mod. Putting pressure. Telling them: “Time is of the essence. if you get an attorney, it will considerably slow down the process.”

    Do you think something’s up? 🙂

  16. KC,

    Thanks. I posted that thing yesterday and, indeed, I laughed my ass off. But if you really listened to the entire interview about what happened to people’s pensions and 401K, most official elects don’t know their ass from their elbow (and have a solid financial incentive never to find out which is which) it is, well… sobering, to say the least.

    And don’t make any mistake: what happens in Detroit and Rhode Island doesn’t stay in Detroit or Rhode Island. It’s spreads to IL, WI, MI, OH and everywhere else. It already has…

  17. If there is evidence of title problems then why doesn’t the original “lender” make a claim?

  18. very timely post for me. thx

  19. I see on my documents from closing, i.e., the title policy that the alleged originator and his “assigns” are the payee, but they are now not in existence because they went bankrupt.

  20. “There have been many admissions by government officials and even parties to the litigation over mortgage Foreclosures to the effect that at this point the ownership of most loans is in doubt. Even President Obama said it, reflecting the views and advice of the senior advisors at the White House.”

    Huh? Since when has Obama, or any of his bank stooge advisors, admitted anything other than desperate love for the Street? Doubtful loans….isn’t in the vocabulary of this administration. O would risk his coming presidential library full of Goldman Sachs memorabilia complete with drones hanging from the ceiling.

  21. Dear Mr. Garfield:

    Would you kindly tell me in what California Appellate case did both parties agree that they could not identify the creditor of the loan? Thank you for any information.

  22. Claims .. Claims.. Claims… Avoid the Claims? Hide/Deny the Claims because of your or your agents actions?

    No Way… Just Ask Them!

    When you sleep with the dog … you get fleas.

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